NL200 is this line good?

DCal is TAG reg. The other dude is a station. Who likes this line? I'd play set the same way to keep the fish in...

Submitted by : phexac

PokerStars Game #22226236424: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/11/21 2:24:50 ET
Table 'Achilles' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: TSV777 ($189 in chips)
Seat 2: Kobrakai27 ($312.80 in chips)
Seat 3: PossibleOuts ($71.05 in chips)
Seat 4: DCal Zone ($592.20 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($221.30 in chips)
Seat 6: elovole ($141 in chips)
Kobrakai27: posts small blind $1
PossibleOuts: posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
DCal Zone: raises $4 to $6
Hero : calls $6
elovole: folds
TSV777: folds
Kobrakai27: folds
PossibleOuts: calls $4

Flop (Pot : $19.00)

   
PossibleOuts: bets $4
DCal Zone: raises $14 to $18
Hero : calls $18
PossibleOuts: folds

Turn (Pot : $59.00)

   
DCal Zone: bets $40
Hero : raises $157.30 to $197.30 and is all-in
DCal Zone:

Don't like turn shove. I don't imagine if DCal Zone has any respect for you at all he's betting the turn with anything he's folding and short of AdJd, KdJd, KdQd, I don't think he's betting the turn with anything you beat.

Not a big fan of flop either. I think if you improve your hand and get action, you're probably about to get owned. At least if you raise, you'll get a lot of folds because you're showing a ton of strength, and you're at least ahead of everything that isn't a set, 89, JdTd, JdQd.

I like making it 65 on the flop. On turn, what do you think he's bet/folding that's better than your hand, or what do you think he's bet/calling that's worse than your hand? It seems like blind aggression and I don't think it matters that you would play a set like this with the fish in when DCal is probably 24 tabling and only playing his hand.

3bet the flop and get it in

you have the nizzles

I like raising the flop and as played I think you did good to shove there, I mean if you make him fold an overpair a small amount of the time its good because of all the equity you have anyway.

if shoving this turn is bad so its getting it in the flop imo only our equity changes, if we are so concerned about his nittyness then we can flat and re-eval

Raise flop shove turn.

On November 21 2008 07:44 TimDawg wrote: 3bet the flop and get it in you have the nizzles

<3

On November 21 2008 12:54 Baal wrote: if shoving this turn is bad so its getting it in the flop imo only our equity changes, if we are so concerned about his nittyness then we can flat and re-eval

Yeah my reasoning was that he folds same amount of flop and turn (and folds a lot). I honestly expect him to fold JJ-AA here (or on flop) a lot of the time. And sometimes he doesn't have an overpair. Maybe that's optimistic, but I think calling there against my range is very -EV. Even with our semi-bluff, we have 44% equity versus overpair, so shoving can't ever be terrible as some people in this thread imply.

What I am really curious about is why people dismiss the value of keeping the fish in?

On November 21 2008 16:42 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2008 12:54 Baal wrote: if shoving this turn is bad so its getting it in the flop imo only our equity changes, if we are so concerned about his nittyness then we can flat and re-eval What I am really curious about is why people dismiss the value of keeping the fish in?

I'm guessing cause the fish is a short stack and you have the nuts but not really the nuts, it's the nuts when you add in FE and you probably come out better off in the long run with the folds on the flop + hitting when called rather than going to the turn cheap and trying to draw. (big emphasis on guessing, cause I'm a noob)

I think flop raise makes the most sense but I don't think this line is horrible either. I mean you pick up so much equity on the turn and I think you can still fold out some overpairs so why not get it in.

i like this.

On November 21 2008 12:54 Baal wrote: if shoving this turn is bad so its getting it in the flop imo only our equity changes, if we are so concerned about his nittyness then we can flat and re-eval

eh not totally. if it's bad to get it in on turn it can still be good to 3bet flop and then call off the rest despite not really loving the fact that you have to call on the flop. because if you 3bet the flop you're probably gonna get a ton of folds and you might get overs+FD to get it in, which is cool because you have a pair+blockers and that's fine. but if you cold call flop and THEN dcal keeps betting even on this turn, you are prob fucked and shoving turn is prob bad. but 3betting flop and calling can still be fine/good

so yeah like...the times when you 3bet flop AND have to end up calling off the rest aren't great, but there are lots of times when you 3bet flop and win the pot right now, which ARE great. however when you see this turn and he bets again, that's never great

i'm not sure if i am actually disagreeing with you or i'm misunderstanding what you're saying though

i think this is better with a set, though not necessarily the best play, but i'm 100% with freak when we have this particular hand

Ship flop. More fold equity on the flop because u are putting the 3rd raise in. He's gonna put you on FD if u flat. Then he gets to mine a blank on you if u just flat reducing your equity even more. Remember as well, hes not really putting a raise in on the flop. The blind led out $4... i dont even pay attention to those small lead-in bets. I still make my cbet as I would if they didnt make the bet at all. So this could be considered a standard cbet. He can have almost any standard preflop raise hand. We are not really worried about exposing the hand because you are strong against anything but a set and 89, which u have no fold equity to anyways. RR really strong and if for some crazy reason he just calls get it in on turn.

i like this