online poker isn't dying...

it is evolving...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45308792-8679-11dd-959e-0000779fd18c.html

Manro aims to cash in on internet poker

By James Mackintosh and Robert Blincoe

Published: September 19 2008 23:23 | Last updated: September 19 2008 23:23

Hedge fund managers have been accused this week of turning the stock market into a casino, but one trader is taking the opposite approach: turning casinos into markets.

Manro Haydan, a London proprietary trading business, is betting it can make money from online poker by putting up the stakes for an army of more than 150 freelance “traders” to gamble over the internet.

The privately owned company, which invests for its own account, believes that by applying the sophisticated risk management techniques used in money management to poker it can shift the odds in its favour.

An increasing number of hedge funds and similar “alternative investments” have been looking for ways to make money that are unrelated to equity or bond markets, with funds set up to invest in musical instruments, football players and photographs.

One other hedge fund manager has been trying to raise money to set up a poker fund, but it remains unclear whether it will succeed in setting up as a competitor to Manro.

Chris Smith, head of Manro, said the model was not that far from the business of employing traders – for a cut of profits – to make money from futures, options or foreign exchange.

One major difference, though, is that poker players typically prefer to fund their own hands rather than give up a share of winnings to a backer.

“There aren’t enough players that would accept our terms because 99 per cent of them want to fund it themselves,” he said. “It is a quite different mindset.”

Manro has set up BadBeat to recruit players, putting up their funding and imposing tight controls on their betting levels. BadBeat covers all losses and takes half of any wins – leaving poker players on a much better deal than ordinary traders.

Many top hedge fund managers are also poker players. David Einhorn, founder of New York firm Greenlight Capital, came 18th and won $660,000 (£360,000) in the world series of poker in 2006.

Still, hedge funds and prop traders are not thought to have moved into professional poker before, with players typically either putting up their own ante or being bankrolled by wealthy friends.

Mr Smith, who also plays poker, says the arrival of online poker has made it possible to bring proper risk controls to what was previously a game many played intuitively. He adds: “At the baseline of it all, it is bloody enjoyable.”

The same applies to many of the hedge funds set up to provide “alternative alternatives” to investors looking for returns not linked to shares or bonds. Funds pitched to investors or launched in recent years include ones investing in football players, art, wine, racehorses, and one that invests according to the findings of pollsters.

Other investments that have since become normal in the hedge fund industry include film finance, backing lawsuits and buying up farmland.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008

this still doesn't really prove that online poker is on the decline.

although i believe that online poker will never "die" out. degens need a way to gambollll and as long as there's a need there will always be a supply legit or not.

On September 20 2008 23:59 YoMeR wrote: this still doesn't really prove that online poker is not on the decline. although i believe that online poker will never "die" out. degens need a way to gambollll and as long as there's a need there will always be a supply legit or not.

the point is online poker is getting the attention of these traders, hedge fund managers.. etc... the fact that they are willing to shell out money to stake players to play online is a good sign.

so does this mean that bad regulars will have a shitton of money now since they have millions of dollars from hedge fund managers to grind teh pokers?

maybe i should apply to be a hedge fund grinder.

i honestly cant see how online poker could die out without some serious intervention of governments

On September 21 2008 01:06 YoMeR wrote: so does this mean that bad regulars will have a shitton of money now since they have millions of dollars from hedge fund managers to grind teh pokers?

try thinking about it outside a player's perspective... these fund managers see it as an opportunity to make money, just from that, other opportunities and possibilities for poker over all can arise.

so what if these staking companies like 'BadBeat' tie up with poker training sites like cardrunners. that's a whole new, different dynamic in the poker industry there as well.

it's evolving is what i'm saying.

On September 21 2008 01:06 YoMeR wrote: so does this mean that bad regulars will have a shitton of money now since they have millions of dollars from hedge fund managers to grind teh pokers? maybe i should apply to be a hedge fund grinder.

lol welcome to team peachykeen!!

The main problem I see is that for it to be worthwhile for the player, the backing needs to be several levels higher than his current level. And there is obviously no certainty that a 10BB/100 winner at $5/$10 NL is any kind of winner at $25/$50.

uhh... this is going to help kill poker not juice it up

how?

thank god. now i can withdraw my roll and apply for staking and bloat my resume to 7ptbb @ 600nl FR lawl

Casino's are still always full of people, and as long as people want to gamble poker will be around for a long time

Poker will be around for a long time but the fact that smart hud using individuals are 12 tabling will simply make the good/bad player ratio a lot worse and likely hurt your winrate. Of course you can win money against those players but it simply will be harder/higher variance compared to taking money from a 50/10/0.1 player.

That said as long for a university student like me at the moment nothing compares in hourly rate.

Suici

On September 21 2008 01:32 tokeweed wrote: Show nested quote + On September 21 2008 01:06 YoMeR wrote: so does this mean that bad regulars will have a shitton of money now since they have millions of dollars from hedge fund managers to grind teh pokers? try thinking about it outside a player's perspective... these fund managers see it as an opportunity to make money, just from that, other opportunities and possibilities for poker over all can arise. so what if these staking companies like 'BadBeat' tie up with poker training sites like cardrunners. that's a whole new, different dynamic in the poker industry there as well. it's evolving is what i'm saying.

yea i get what you mean. i got a cousin who's managing a hedge fund and he's a pretty sick individual. definitely wanna be under his wing at some point in the future. From an investment perspective i think investing in poker players is very stupid imo as there's the human element that's very very relevant to a poker players win rate and amount won. ie. tilt control, money management, and just straight up discipline to grind and grind. Plus most players are degens and there are the occasional scumbags that'll try and fuck you.
basically what i'm saying is this is like a miniscule step as i was playing around with this idea as well. But still has a longass way to go. Also: hedge fund managers are probably only thinking about using this as a small hedge to their other bigtime investments. as NL5k is complete chumpchange to a hedgefund manager ;o. And you need to be a top notch player to be winning consistantly at those stakes and higher.

On September 21 2008 11:13 YoMeR wrote: Show nested quote + On September 21 2008 01:32 tokeweed wrote:   On September 21 2008 01:06 YoMeR wrote: so does this mean that bad regulars will have a shitton of money now since they have millions of dollars from hedge fund managers to grind teh pokers? try thinking about it outside a player's perspective... these fund managers see it as an opportunity to make money, just from that, other opportunities and possibilities for poker over all can arise. so what if these staking companies like 'BadBeat' tie up with poker training sites like cardrunners. that's a whole new, different dynamic in the poker industry there as well. it's evolving is what i'm saying. Also: hedge fund managers are probably only thinking about using this as a small hedge to their other bigtime investments. as NL5k is complete chumpchange to a hedgefund manager ;o. And you need to be a top notch player to be winning consistantly at those stakes and higher.

yeah... plus poker players have a whole different mindset as we, as much as possible, don't wanna be staked and share half of our winnings. but these hedge fund guys giving this kind of attention to online poker just surprised me as these are the same guys who don't believe in "gambol" when it comes to money.

so does this mean a lot of more fish at the high stakes tables soon? I should get my game going and get up there soon!

yes... cos some players would prolly do this... lol

On September 21 2008 08:02 whamm! wrote: thank god. now i can withdraw my roll and apply for staking and bloat my resume to 7ptbb @ 600nl FR lawl

Damn sick, how do I apply? I'm sure they're hiring random live fish anyway they should team up with DC or CR and offer mediated backing to members or something.

edit: I actually remember an ad for this on 2p2 about 2 months ago. They already have a deal with ipoker, somebody needs to tell these foos about CR and DC lol.

http://www.badbeat.com/Ease/ContentServer?siteID=1867&categoryID=1464

No U.S players, obv.

its not evolvin..its mutatin