NL200 KK 3bet pot terrible flop

The initial raiser is a 20/20 player. We have no history together at all. The other guy is a fish who we don't care about here. This board is about as bad as it can get for KK in a 3bet pot. Normally I bet this with intention of shutting down and check-folding if called and folding flop if raised. But I just feel that even though we have overpair and KK in 3bet pot, whenever I do cbet, I always wish I hadn't since they never fold, forcing me to give up and lose more money than necessary. Is cbet mandatory or can I check-fold this flop or bet turn if it does get checked around? How do you guys handle such spots?

Submitted by : phexac

PokerStars Game #19899235235: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/08/25 - 20:36:26 (ET)
Table 'Patria II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: BobRooney555 ($231.65 in chips)
Seat 2: simona75 ($616.35 in chips)
Seat 3: BRedd81 ($200 in chips)
Seat 4: Kozor01 ($384.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($200 in chips)
Seat 6: d3vd3v ($318.95 in chips)
Kozor01: posts small blind $1
Hero : posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
d3vd3v: raises $4 to $6
BobRooney555: folds
simona75: folds
BRedd81: calls $6
Kozor01: folds
Hero : raises $22 to $28
d3vd3v: calls $22
BRedd81: calls $22

Flop (Pot : $85.00)

   
Hero :

bet/call

On August 25 2008 20:49 taqtiX wrote: bet/call

I wrote something out, but then deleted cuz all I can say is RUSRS?...

U cant givem free card. If u check, they can trap u and check behind with set anyway. Just get it in, sometimes u will face set, but theres really nothing u can do with it here.

On August 25 2008 20:49 taqtiX wrote: bet/call

+

take your cooler nit.

Not getting it in here is ludacris.

Why is this a topic?

bet/call all day long

i like this flop a lot better then a A rag rag flop fire away! in FR it would suck a little more but i think you can feel pretty good about getting it in.

Seriously, outside of AQ, which I am not even sure he calls with PF, what hand in villain's range would we possibly be happy to see here? I mean you guys are so definitive that this is easy stack off spot, once we bet and are shoved on/called, what can he possibly have that we don't hate? Just curious about your guys' reasoning for this?

Even if we are an underdog most of the time we get it in its still +EV.

On August 26 2008 10:58 EvilSky wrote: Even if we are an underdog most of the time we get it in its still +EV.

How do you figure? I am looking for a viable range here that does not fold to our cbet that does not completely dominate us. If we could put AQ 100% in his range it would not be too bad, but I really don't think it will be there that often.

I only play NL100 so I won't even try to advise, but I'm curious. You think you aren't being called preflop by anything but JJ+? At NL100 I see all kinds of players with TAGish stats calling 3bets with waaay wider ranges than that. If you get big action on this flop it's not only AQ I'd expect to be beating but various draws. Is your experience really so much different from that?

Once you put in a bet in this big pot you are getting huge odds to call it off, its enough for him to have AQ like 30% of the time or smthng like that, and also he can have draws and other random stuff too.Check calling is no good because they will check back hands with showdown value and most draws and the hands they will bet for value are gonna stack off anyway to your bet.

What if he just flat calls the cbet?

In fact, let's add one street:

Submitted by : phexac

PokerStars Game #19899235235: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/08/25 - 20:36:26 (ET)
Table 'Patria II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: BobRooney555 ($231.65 in chips)
Seat 2: simona75 ($616.35 in chips)
Seat 3: BRedd81 ($200 in chips)
Seat 4: Kozor01 ($384.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($200 in chips)
Seat 6: d3vd3v ($318.95 in chips)
Kozor01: posts small blind $1
Hero : posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
d3vd3v: raises $4 to $6
BobRooney555: folds
simona75: folds
BRedd81: calls $6
Kozor01: folds
Hero : raises $22 to $28
d3vd3v: calls $22
BRedd81: calls $22

Flop (Pot : $85.00)

   
Hero : bets $50
d3vd3v: calls $50
BRedd81: folds

Turn (Pot : $185.00)

   
Hero : checks
d3vd3v: bets $240.95 and is all-in
Hero :

you have successfully trapped him. now call

On August 26 2008 12:49 phexac wrote: In fact, let's add one street: Submitted by : phexac PokerStars Game #19899235235: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/08/25 - 20:36:26 (ET) Table 'Patria II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: BobRooney555 ($231.65 in chips) Seat 2: simona75 ($616.35 in chips) Seat 3: BRedd81 ($200 in chips) Seat 4: Kozor01 ($384.25 in chips) Seat 5: Hero ($200 in chips) Seat 6: d3vd3v ($318.95 in chips) Kozor01: posts small blind $1 Hero : posts big blind $2 Holecards Dealt to Hero d3vd3v: raises $4 to $6 BobRooney555: folds simona75: folds BRedd81: calls $6 Kozor01: folds Hero : raises $22 to $28 d3vd3v: calls $22 BRedd81: calls $22 Flop (Pot : $85.00)     Hero : bets $50 d3vd3v: calls $50 BRedd81: folds Turn (Pot : $185.00)     Hero : checks d3vd3v: bets $240.95 and is all-in Hero :

lol are you really serious

i think this is one big level

Must be a huge level.

On August 26 2008 05:49 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: bet/call all day long