A real professor ?

155Two Sides to Every Coin (flip) http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/tip-email-155-deposit?utm_id=362

Howard Says:

I think people try to avoid them too much, especially after they've already committed chips to the pot. If the pot has 1,000 in it and you have to put your last 500 chips in to make the call, you're getting 2-1 on your money – yet people dodge this situation all the time. It's just wrong; you should love to take 2-1 on a coin flip even if you only have a 48% chance of winning.

hahaha what the phuck ??? :D ... I read that 3 times to be sure I'm not making a mistake because that sounds so ridiculous ... in this example the EV is +220 ... how come that is a coin flip :D??? By the way he said that, it sounds like we have negative expectation (not 50% but 48% ... and we should call 'cuz of the money already invested in the pot...

i think you should read it a fourth time

I have an inkling it won't matter how many times he reads it.

hahaha what the phuck ??? :D

On July 22 2008 07:26 Brobebrato wrote: hahaha what the phuck ??? :D ... I read that 3 times to be sure I'm not making a mistake because that sounds so ridiculous ... in this example the EV is +220 ... how come that is a coin flip :D??? By the way he said that, it sounds like we have negative expectation (not 50% but 48% ... and we should call 'cuz of the money already invested in the pot...

How is this ridiculous? This is like the most basic of pot odds calculations in the world.

Um, it is a coinflip because you are 48% to win versus 52% to lose, which makes it close enough to 50-50 for it to be a "coinflip."

Also, just because you aren't a favorite to win doesn't mean you have a negative expectation. You said yourself the EV is +220 in this example. If you know that then I don't see what the problem is at all.

If you want a basic explanation of applying your pot odds to your % chance of winning, go here.

If this kind of stuff makes you a professor, nearly everyone at LP is a professor. And yes, I didn't forget the 'nearly'...

looooooool

On July 22 2008 07:42 Yugless wrote: i think you should read it a fourth time

lol best post in a while

Rhaegar forbids them to read the forums and then look what happens... (j/k)

bubba play pokah
bubba like play pokah

wat

I guess my english is pretty bad or what ? I said he's saying like it's a negative EV, how can I think it's a negative EV since we're getting 2-1 with 48% of winning and I wrote we have +EV??? ... And he's saying that some ppl doesn't take 2-1 flipament with 50% hand...I know what a coin flip is, but I meant that I real coin flip is when your pod odds are even to the chance you win the hand ... so comparing 33 to 50 is an insta call, nobrainer ... (in the described situation). 0.48 x 1000 - 0.52 x 500 = it is a flip, seems more like an insta call to me - but ok I'm an idiot and a noob, gimme a break.

its a coinflip because mathematically you're CLOSE to 50% chance to win
very simple

he should have used a better example to explain this concept (someone with a bit less equity than 48 %)

whatever.

He is just saying that u should take a coinflip if money is already invested in.

On July 22 2008 11:41 Repusz wrote: Rhaegar forbids them to read the forums and then look what happens... (j/k)

ROFL

and brober a coinflip is still a coinflip no matter how much its in the pot.

its solely based on your chance of winning even if the pott is huge and your pot odds enormous

On July 22 2008 17:50 SpasticInk wrote: he should have used a better example to explain this concept (someone with a bit less equity than 48 %) whatever.

That was my point in first place.

Anyway I'll give you an example to see if i'm the only one thinking this way.

We have 8s9s OTB EFS - 75 BB - EP opens 4xBB - fold to us - we flat - blinds fold.
Flop Ts6s2d - 1st ...EP c-bets 7.5 bb - we raise to 21 bb - he shoves and then he says he has KdKc (not lying etc) - pot odds 101.5 bb to 50bb making us ~48 % winner with close to EV of 1/4th of a full Bi.

Here we have combo draw and we decide to play it fast and raise his standart c-bet. His flop 3bet shove gives us more information and narrows his possible range and defines his hand (let's say 22,66, TT+ - making our EV +~14bb ~ 42% chance of winning) and we decide that's an easy + EV call.

2nd - same hand - but the EP guy shoves directly giving us 80.5 to 71 odds and then he again says only he has KK - this time our EV is ~ 0 BB.

Here he shoves on the flop - donk move to protect his hand which defines it more. He says he has kings, making our call break even in the long run and we fold if we run bad, not willing to take a flipament.

So - same hand, almost the same % of winning the hand(a bit less when he has Ks 2nd one) but two different angles.
Does anyone agree that the coin flip is only in the 2nd example bcuz our EV is =0 ? Or you think a coin flip depends on the % to win the hand and not the EV. I don't care if that's wrong or not, but I'm sure it's a better way to define what's a coin flip - judging by the EV in the situation.

p.s. Nice pic Baal :D haha

So you are arguing his semantics?

I mean what he meant was that people should take a 48% to win in the turn if there is money already invested, its an extremely simple concept you are overanalizing it imo.

a coinflip is fiddy percentage

On July 22 2008 19:00 Brobebrato wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2008 17:50 SpasticInk wrote: he should have used a better example to explain this concept (someone with a bit less equity than 48 %) whatever. That was my point in first place. Anyway I'll give you an example to see if i'm the only one thinking this way. We have 8s9s OTB EFS - 75 BB - EP opens 4xBB - fold to us - we flat - blinds fold. Flop Ts6s2d - 1st ...EP c-bets 7.5 bb - we raise to 21 bb - he shoves and then he says he has KdKc (not lying etc) - pot odds 101.5 bb to 50bb making us ~48 % winner with close to EV of 1/4th of a full Bi. Here we have combo draw and we decide to play it fast and raise his standart c-bet. His flop 3bet shove gives us more information and narrows his possible range and defines his hand (let's say 22,66, TT+ - making our EV +~14bb ~ 42% chance of winning) and we decide that's an easy + EV call. 2nd - same hand - but the EP guy shoves directly giving us 80.5 to 71 odds and then he again says only he has KK - this time our EV is ~ 0 BB. Here he shoves on the flop - donk move to protect his hand which defines it more. He says he has kings, making our call break even in the long run and we fold if we run bad, not willing to take a flipament. So - same hand, almost the same % of winning the hand(a bit less when he has Ks 2nd one) but two different angles. Does anyone agree that the coin flip is only in the 2nd example bcuz our EV is =0 ? Or you think a coin flip depends on the % to win the hand and not the EV. I don't care if that's wrong or not, but I'm sure it's a better way to define what's a coin flip - judging by the EV in the situation. p.s. Nice pic Baal :D haha

How do you manage to fill my entire 15 inch with a post on a concept as simple as a coinflip with dead money in the pot?

Edit: P.S. this is actually the first time I quote someone without reading his post

love that pic.

wtf?

a "coin flip" refers to the equity when the money goes in. if you have about 50% (heads-up) then it's a coinflip. 43% is probably an acceptable minimum equity to actually call something a coinflip

the action doesn't matter roflmao. even if you get allin preflop with 98ss against KK and the flop is Ts6s2d, now you're in a coinflip

what are you nerds talking about

@ op:

you definitely do not understand what "coin flip" means if you are making these posts. go back and figure it out

another great point proving that poker isn't drying up...this thread is gold

mmmmmm i hope the next WSOP winner is a chinaman

he could induce a poker frenzy in china, a country with progressively increasing wealth and 1/6th the world population

the fish would come in droves XD

yeah but thats not the problem, the government there have serious restrictions/censorship about this kind of stuff

On July 22 2008 22:47 [vital]Myth wrote: wtf? a "coin flip" refers to the equity when the money goes in. if you have about 50% (heads-up) then it's a coinflip. 43% is probably an acceptable minimum equity to actually call something a coinflip the action doesn't matter roflmao. even if you get allin preflop with 98ss against KK and the flop is Ts6s2d, now you're in a coinflip what are you nerds talking about

the real question is, does he have the KING OF SPADES?

On July 22 2008 18:08 Baal wrote:

ahaha :D

Is this really a thread!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!??!?!?!?!?

Fuck me HE IS SAYING YOU ARE GETTING 2-1 ON A 50/50 PROPOSITION. MEANING ON A COINFLIP IF I WIN I GET 2 DOLLARS/CHIPS/CAMELS/WHATEVER IF YOU WIN YOU GET 1 DOLLAR.

can 65-35 be considered a coinflip?

On July 22 2008 23:42 PokerDoc88 wrote: mmmmmm i hope the next WSOP winner is a chinaman he could induce a poker frenzy in china, a country with progressively increasing wealth and 1/6th the world population the fish would come in droves XD

lololololol

On July 23 2008 08:14 LandisReed wrote: can 65-35 be considered a coinflip?

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