NL800 TP+gutshot wtf to do?

Submitted by : DustySwedeDude

** Game ID 2056304308 starting - 2008-06-16 12:19:23
** Silvanus [Hold 'em] 4.00|8.00 NL - $ Cash Game Real Money

- thebentspoon sitting in seat 2 with $671.00
- Forza_Idom sitting in seat 3 with $611.20 [Dealer]
- DonkeyKlonk sitting in seat 4 with $1574.00
- pornoper sitting in seat 5 with $292.00
- Dustylove sitting in seat 6 with $954.00

DonkeyKlonk posted the small blind - $4.00
pornoper posted the big blind - $8.00
** Dealing card to Dustylove:,
Dustylove raised - $32.00
thebentspoon folded
Forza_Idom folded
DonkeyKlonk called - $32.00
pornoper called - $32.00

** Dealing the flop:,,
DonkeyKlonk checked
pornoper checked
Dustylove bet - $72.00
DonkeyKlonk raised - $255.00
pornoper folded
Dustylove ???

well.. from my experience donkeyklonk is very very agro regular who plays 5/10 +. He likes to do moves, betting on dangerous flops etc. meh in this spot i would check flop if it would be 2handed but here.. c-bet is somehow necessary but im nearly convinced he will repop here hands like QTs,JTs,AT and obv 99,QJ. If u call here im sure he will fire 2nd bullet if the turn brings a blank card.

Yea, I called and he shoved for pot. Standard call?

Dusty - think this belongs in High stakes but as you're asking here......

I would say with little history this is a tough spot. If DonkeyKlonk has a history with pornoper (which from what you're guessing could be likely) then it's more challenging + you don't know how he reacts to your active start at the table.

Looks like he's repping 99 but equally could be that his c/r is just a consequence of your active start/what looks like a standard cbet from you? Then A/T, J/T are possible - forcing a decision now (Q/T, Q/J obv less likely but possible), maybe TT possible with pornoper history?

I think with little info call + ship is dangerous - may as well ship now if you are going to do that? Doesn't a raise now put you in a position where you are as good as shoving anyway and a call could bring lots of scare cards/cards making it easy for him to bet turn also?

Having said that I haven't played at these stakes - so best repost in high and ask people who have.....so I can learn why I should stay at lower stakes...

wtf I thought I posted another reply? Doesn't seem to show up.

Anyway, I posted it here because I feel that this is hardly a hand worthy of high stakes poster opinion but rather somewhat standard so I just wanted to get a checkup on my line. Feel free to post opinions and ranges. About the call vs raise thingy I felt that I'd like him to shove blanks on the turn and get a little more equity vs draws but that might be stupid since I won't really be sure which cards he can hit. Also, I think he might slow down with like QJ on a A or 8-turn and maybe even give me a freebee a lot. In retrospect this seems rather dumb though.

btw turn was like 6c or something.

Hmm since you are the UTG opener and he is B,I think we can put 99-JJ in his range(he prefers not to raise them,cause it can get ugly if you 4-bet,he has position etc.)
It also depends whether he percieves you as nitty,aggro etc,but generally QJs,even J9s are in his range.
This said and the fact that he has so many Q10,J10 type of hands,sometimes made str8 hands I really prefer to muck in on the flop without any info.Surely it is a sucky spot and your hand looks so nice,but you will still have no idea where you are on a blank turn(like this one)-the only hand you are ahead of is 910c,A10c,but he still has some decent FE.Maybe playing with stove will show sth different,but I am really lazy to do it right now.

He called before pornoper, so I would exclude some weaker pf hands from his range, like QT, KT, T8...maybe even QJ.

results from pokerstove :

37,620 games 0.005 secs 7,524,000 games/sec

Board: Qd Jc 9s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.604% 33.35% 08.25% 12547 3104.50 { KhQh }
Hand 1: 58.396% 50.14% 08.25% 18864 3104.50 { JJ-99, AQs, KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, AQo, KQo, QJo }

and for tighter range :

19,800 games 0.005 secs 3,960,000 games/sec

Board: Qd Jc 9s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.813% 36.30% 00.52% 7187 102.00 { KhQh }
Hand 1: 63.187% 62.67% 00.52% 12409 102.00 { JJ-99, AQs, AQo }

I think that c/raise on such dangerous flop 3 way means that he is on (combo) draw more often than he has set.

On June 16 2008 10:20 gruzerz wrote: Hmm since you are the UTG opener and he is B,I think we can put 99-JJ in his range(he prefers not to raise them,cause it can get ugly if you 4-bet,he has position etc.) It also depends whether he percieves you as nitty,aggro etc,but generally QJs,even J9s are in his range. This said and the fact that he has so many Q10,J10 type of hands,sometimes made str8 hands I really prefer to muck in on the flop without any info.Surely it is a sucky spot and your hand looks so nice,but you will still have no idea where you are on a blank turn(like this one)-the only hand you are ahead of is 910c,A10c,but he still has some decent FE.Maybe playing with stove will show sth different,but I am really lazy to do it right now.

He is on SB, are u sure he calls with J9s? I play just nl200, most regs folds J9s in position there...

weee, its hard spot, but generally i think it should be decision between allin/fold so we can play it the same way as sets AA QT AT(?), and we dont know exactly which cards are bad at turn, so sometimes you may acutally fold to his turn bet when he missed

I think that calling is better than pushing.

(i think folding is probably best)