3betting against SB steal, what range?

hi, just wondering, if someone is raising 30% of their cards in a steal from the SB, as in they open raise from SB, what % should you be 3 betting them with?

Poker stove says 30% of the best hands is:
55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o

is it better to 3bet with like the top 15% hands? 20%? 10%?

Top 10% is:
88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo

Top 15% is:
77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo

Top 20% is:
66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo

any two

On June 11 2008 16:41 Rekrul wrote: any two

i think its much more about flow of the game than hand range i mean, i rather 3-bet him with like T7o when he gives me credit and i know he will fold easily than if i get 3 times i a row a hand like K8s (which is top 20%) and 3 bet him 3 in a row and i will induce a play from him when i hold K8s and i cant really fight back easily

As Baal said, this is much more of an "it depends" question. It varies a lot more with situation, game flow, and player, than say starting hand requirements.

do it once, MAYBE twice with atc after they hit you a few times to back them off then tighten that up to 20-25% best hands range

i agree with baal it depends its all about game flow sometimes i do it with atc sometimes

As well as game flow, your choice of range, and not just the size of your range, should reflect how he reacts to 3bets. If he only reacts by 4betting or folding, then you want a range that shoves or folds well preflop; Something like Axs, AQ+, TT+ only in the situations in which you are happy to shove over a 4bet, depending on his frequency, and complete junk the rest. If he calls 3bets too much, then you usually want hands that flop decent top pairs, and to simply not 3bet that much oop until/if he adjusts.

oh whoops, I was thinking about 3betting button from sb. Because you have position BBvSB you can define your range much more by postflop tendencies, and 3bet a much wider range against someone who calls 3bets. If he's opening 30% from the SB, he needs to be shat on hard, as he's just dangling money in front of your nose.

i can reraise any two

If it was this simple, there'd be pretty awsum bots out there.

30% steal is pretty tight. Ranges for 3betting vs button openers should change depending on how often they fold to the 3bet itself, how often they fold when they call, how often they 4bet and all that stuff.

Against nits who fold a lot preflop / postflop and basically trying to make TPGK+/Good draw minimum I will 3bet a ton of tiny pairs / suited connector / premium hands only and either fold or just flat with any hand that makes top pair, but one that you wouldn't be happy getting it all in with in a 3bet pot (such as KJ AT). Reasons are: You're gonna be winning the pot without showdown so much you can make insta profit as long as you don't go crazy and get it in with middle pair or weak top pairs. Small pairs and suited connectors have a much better chance of outflopping the tight ranges that a nit will be defending than some inbetween hands like AT. Not being able to get it in comfortably with top pair in a 3bet pot sucks terribly, and if I don't think I can I would rather avoid the difficulty of facing that situation, and like I said you have a much better chance of outflopping a tight range / winning a big pot with suited connectors or tiny pairs anyway.

Against someone who is defending a lot and floating or bluff raising a lot, suited connectors have no value as you miss the flop too often, don't flop draws often enough to get it in and will be bleeding money. Against that kind of player i will 3bet a lot of hands for value, hands even as weak as KTo that can make decent top pairs as they will be defending a lot of hands that you dominate and some that dominate you too, but still if they are bluffing / floating with such frequency that top pair = auto profit then KT makes decent enough top pairs). Against this type of player I also don't mind 3betting a hand like 88 for value, although it will lead to many tricky situations, but you can often cbet to induce a float with only 1 overcard, then induce bluffs. It's a high variance play and sometimes you look stupid when they have top pair, something they slowplayed or even worse something below top pair that they valuetown you with, but in the right spot against the right player you can make a lot of money when they defend something like 54s, whiff totally but float with no pair no draw because they can.

Playing vs guys who 4bet a lot as bluffs and for value, but don't defend a lot I like to polarise ranges to hands that are bluffs and hands that I'm getting it in with, and my range would probably look something similar to the kind of range I'd 3bet the nit with. However I would probably add some more junky hands in like K2s T5s etc. because if they are not defending often and are pretty much playing a 4bet/fold strategy then how well your hand flops makes little difference (I'm not saying 3bet them with 72o, but it doesn't have to be something spectacular like 98s etc to 3bet if you're not playing postflop much). The frequency with which I 3bet those trashy hands as a bluff really just depends on the frequency with which I expect them to 4bet bluff me. If I expect them to 4bet for value in a spot, but never as a bluff then I will most certainly 3bet junky hands, if I expect them to be very frustrated and highly likely to 4bet bluff, I will not do it with junky hands.

Oh, and as an addition for the last part: Some players almost never ever get frustrated, against them you just pound on them all day long.

Finally, against unknowns I will 3bet a combination of inbetween hands AND speculative hands. This will result in me 3betting them a lot more, but if I have no history I like to build an aggressive image and see how they react to my aggression right away.

pick your spots, do it.

Finding those spots is the art, imo.

On June 12 2008 04:55 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: 30% steal is pretty tight. Ranges for 3betting vs button openers should change depending on how often they fold to the 3bet itself, how often they fold when they call, how often they 4bet and all that stuff. Against nits who fold a lot preflop / postflop and basically trying to make TPGK+/Good draw minimum I will 3bet a ton of tiny pairs / suited connector / premium hands only and either fold or just flat with any hand that makes top pair, but one that you wouldn't be happy getting it all in with in a 3bet pot (such as KJ AT). Reasons are: You're gonna be winning the pot without showdown so much you can make insta profit as long as you don't go crazy and get it in with middle pair or weak top pairs. Small pairs and suited connectors have a much better chance of outflopping the tight ranges that a nit will be defending than some inbetween hands like AT. Not being able to get it in comfortably with top pair in a 3bet pot sucks terribly, and if I don't think I can I would rather avoid the difficulty of facing that situation, and like I said you have a much better chance of outflopping a tight range / winning a big pot with suited connectors or tiny pairs anyway. Against someone who is defending a lot and floating or bluff raising a lot, suited connectors have no value as you miss the flop too often, don't flop draws often enough to get it in and will be bleeding money. Against that kind of player i will 3bet a lot of hands for value, hands even as weak as KTo that can make decent top pairs as they will be defending a lot of hands that you dominate and some that dominate you too, but still if they are bluffing / floating with such frequency that top pair = auto profit then KT makes decent enough top pairs). Against this type of player I also don't mind 3betting a hand like 88 for value, although it will lead to many tricky situations, but you can often cbet to induce a float with only 1 overcard, then induce bluffs. It's a high variance play and sometimes you look stupid when they have top pair, something they slowplayed or even worse something below top pair that they valuetown you with, but in the right spot against the right player you can make a lot of money when they defend something like 54s, whiff totally but float with no pair no draw because they can. Playing vs guys who 4bet a lot as bluffs and for value, but don't defend a lot I like to polarise ranges to hands that are bluffs and hands that I'm getting it in with, and my range would probably look something similar to the kind of range I'd 3bet the nit with. However I would probably add some more junky hands in like K2s T5s etc. because if they are not defending often and are pretty much playing a 4bet/fold strategy then how well your hand flops makes little difference (I'm not saying 3bet them with 72o, but it doesn't have to be something spectacular like 98s etc to 3bet if you're not playing postflop much). The frequency with which I 3bet those trashy hands as a bluff really just depends on the frequency with which I expect them to 4bet bluff me. If I expect them to 4bet for value in a spot, but never as a bluff then I will most certainly 3bet junky hands, if I expect them to be very frustrated and highly likely to 4bet bluff, I will not do it with junky hands.

Great read, even though the OP was asking about SB raising BB, not button open.

BB v SB mostly similar ideas, except generally you can be a little bit more liberal as you have position and they're likely opening even more hands with just 1 person behind. You usually don't get much credit BB v SB though so I wouldn't go over the top against someone who is aggressive, and I think you'll be facing 4bets a lot more than button v blind scenarios as they are out of position and will struggle to counter that by calling/playing postflop with weak holdings, whereas with the button they often don't mind seeing a flop with something marginal. The fact that you will be facing 4bets more than calls in this spot argue for 3betting more trashy hands like J5s 73s etc that you don't wanna see a flop with, and possibly just flatting with the better end of your suited connectors as you hate to get 4bet in that spot as it's a hand that you want to see a flop with.