QQ facing 4bet - who folds here?

Villain is a regular playing about 20/20 and he's in EP. However his 4bet is quite large, so I don't think he intends to fold here. If we assume JJ+ and AK, we are still behind. If we assume AK and KK+, our life sucks. I don't have much info on the dude, but I really don't think folding here with no history can be a big mistake where we give up a ton of value. It seems we are flipping vs his range at best and are doing shitty at worst.

So who finds a fold here?

Submitted by : phexac

PokerStars Game #17507447650: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/05/18 - 00:22:21 (ET)
Table 'Etheridgea III' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: jaffobeg ($216.25 in chips)
Seat 2: pAyf0rMyBeNz ($197 in chips)
Seat 3: bait455 ($197 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($200 in chips)
Seat 5: Pronych ($362.55 in chips)
Seat 6: lobojiji ($245.80 in chips)
Pronych: posts small blind $1
lobojiji: posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
jaffobeg: calls $2
pAyf0rMyBeNz: raises $8 to $10
bait455: folds
Hero : raises $24 to $34
Pronych: folds
lobojiji: folds
jaffobeg: folds
pAyf0rMyBeNz: raises $50 to $84
Hero :

if we assume JJ+/AKo/AKs the correct move is to move allin here.

Let's see if my math's right here. Against a range of AK/KK+ you've got 39.8% equity. So (chance of winning the pot vs this range)*(amt of money u win) - (chance of losing the pot vs this range)*(amt of money u lose). So it's .398*236 - .602*166 = ~ -6. So against a range that's this tight your EV is -$6. If he has JJ+ in there, then it becomes .473*236 - .527*166 = +24.146. Even if you have no fold equity, you're losing $6 at worst against this range.

I don't think it can really ever be that bad to get it in with QQ here against a 20/20 and if you think there's even a slight chance he could be doing this with anything else like an Ax suited or AQ for example then definitely stick it in.

i don't fold very often here... especially if villain is known for isolating limpers and could pick up on the fact that you are 3betting him light or with a wider range because of it

Its rare for them to 4 bet AA/KK to that amount, so its an ez all in. If he has AA/KK take a note and move on.

^ this can be a very unreliable tell, lots of nits 4bet big

usually a stnd fold, but i think it's also a stnd flatcall pre because of the stack sizes, pot size after a 3bet, narrowness of his AIPF range, and presence of a limper fish, and the fact that you have position.

with deeper stacks 3bet is totally fine assuming the orig raiser can be iso'ing the fish pretty wide and will gambool trying to stack you in 3b pot

i'd much rather play a 3way pot with a disguised hand and a fish coming in, than see a huge 3bet flop against a solid regular OR be forced to make a marginal-at-best decision for my stack preflop

if you get into some shitty spots that play funny because of your flat pre, fuck it

you'll get into PLENTY more great spots to make up for that, esp since you're third to act AND THERE'S A LIMPER FISH IN THE POT

zomg i love playing in position on fishes

As always, Myth owns the thread. Thanks for your input.