Top trip top kicker weird line

Submitted by : Joe

PokerStars Game #17239168885: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/05/06 - 08:44:25 (ET)
Table 'Philia' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Zelijostocko ($1370.50 in chips)
Seat 2: domperignom ($275.85 in chips)
Seat 3: *Jam-ITIN* ($1211.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Flupkees ($953 in chips)
Seat 5: flaviano ($1777 in chips)
Seat 6: Joeik ($1015 in chips)
flaviano: posts small blind $5
Joeik : posts big blind $10

Holecards
Dealt to Joeik
Zelijostocko: raises $30 to $40
domperignom: folds
*Jam-ITIN*: folds
Flupkees: folds
flaviano: folds
Joeik : calls $30

Flop (Pot : $85.00)

   
Joeik : checks
Zelijostocko: bets $45
Joeik : raises $60 to $105
Zelijostocko: calls $60

Turn (Pot : $295.00)

   
Joeik : checks
Zelijostocko: bets $210
Joeik : calls $210

River (Pot : $715.00)

   
Joeik : checks
Zelijostocko: bets $1015.50 and is all-in
Joeik : ?

....... Easiest call in the world, especially vs bobbofitos? =.=
I don't really get how you can fold after playing the hand this way with no info on him.
EDIT: Not that I have any experience playing vs him specifically but he's a pretty loose opener (ie he can have worse jacks) and you played it very weird when you check turn (I think?).

Lol, wtf are you doing

On May 06 2008 06:29 Rhaegar wrote: Lol, wtf are you doing

you check/raising this Flop and/or taking your overall line + you posting this hand = does not compute

First of all, if you have no idea who villain is, why do you call pf? You have no idea how he plays postflop, AJo seems like a pretty simple fold here.. FYI: villain is Bobbofitos from Leggopoker, a LAG player who opens a ton and is def capable of opening weaker Jx's down to even J9s here probably, so vs him calling here might be better although I still don't really like it.

I think that your check/raise on the flop is so small that it looks like a medium pair that want to pick up the pot. Why the small raise? You leave so much money behind for later streets OoP with a very very marginal hand. Especially without any info whatsoever about villain's lines, this sucks.

When Bobbo calls he will probably be doing that a fair amount of the times as a cheap float because a lot of those pairs will c/f a lot of turns. Now with this turn it is less likely he has a Jx, so a medium pair can't c/f. So if Bobbo decides to still take a stab at it there on the turn, you have to understand that he WILL shove the river on you when he decides to bet the turn, especially given stack/pot-ratio left there which would make it impossible for you to call there on a ton of rivers.

In short; if you don't want to call a shove, fold the turn. And yes this is ridiculous, so just snapcall it. Another thing; I don't think Bobbo would bet the turn that small if he had you beat, because it makes his rivershove kinda big and I don't think you are calling a $210 but folding to a $245 bet on this boardtexture.

I would fold preflop unless you know he opens very light. Lead flop, then turn obviously, shove river. As played checkraise is way to small but given the line you took I actually like the trun check and river check if you are hoping to get a shove on the river by bobbo, but if so then this post makes no sense.

mehhhhhhhh i disagree with folding preflop in 6max, even against utg raisers and even against unknowns. it's 6max ffs. i certainly don't think AJ is gonna be a slam-dunk path to wealth and fame BB vs UTG, but i don't think it's a losing hand to play.

this hand is the same as your quads hand btw, so check my post there. but yeah don't c/r and then c/c, that's like 100% guaranteed to scream "hey i'm never bluffing"

if you c/r flop you have to lead the turn. i mean think about it...if you were bluffing, the turn card would be an excellent card to continue, repping JJJ

yeah joe, look at the board man.

your hand is so polar on the flop, c/c'ing the turn should be telling the villain you have the nuts. whether he actually realized that or not here is tough to say since these tables are spalshfests and he saw you check so hes probably trying to snag the pot.

I wanted to represent QQ-AA, is it that unlikely for me to have there? I sometimes play it like that pf and on the flop.

But yea, I like ur points guys, I should have bet the turn.

If youre repping QQ-AA and want to protect them, then instacall river obv. Even if its losing in a vacuum, at least you guarantee some EV to hands you check-raise flop and check-call turn if you have such (i dont play this way though).

Obv, youre instacalling river, I dont think there can be any discussion about that. If youre asking if your line is ok to take with your hand.. It is, in a very small percent of time if you play QQ-AA the same way.

On May 06 2008 08:46 [vital]Myth wrote: if you c/r flop you have to lead the turn. i mean think about it...if you were bluffing, the turn card would be an excellent card to continue, repping JJJ

really?? i think you're totally off the mark here, imo that turn pairing J is actually an extremely bad card to continue bluffs (possibly worst card in deck). id definitely check the turn a decent amount here in joe's spot to balance my range with bluffs i gave up on because the jack fell.

against a typical good aggressive regular opponent, after I've decided to check the turn and he has bet id def think c/c twice is usually the best line to proceed.

i like how joe played the whole hand except the preflop call (id fold, i think its -ev to try and play AJo out of position for 4bb against a tough aggressive regular raising utg), now pay off on the river.

I think we should continue betting AJ on turn at least like 2/3 of the time and a set - always and theres no reason not to fire turn occasionally and river very rarely as a bluff.

Im with ket 100%

I rarely fire a second barrel with a bluff on that turn so i think c/c c/c is good.

lol? wtf are you doing, how is this even close

call preflop is atrocious. i like the check call check to set up the river bluff/worse vbet by him

Your hand looks like TT-88.

If I'm in villains spot I'm going for a thin value push w/ TT on the river.

To play devils advocate - he's not betting overpair/1pair type hands on the turn, he's checking them for pot control.

So on the river his range is heavily weighted to Jx, 77, 22. He can also have spades, sometimes overpairs and bluffs.

After your baby c/r villain is getting like 4:1 on a call w/ position. Can't he have 7x, a gutshot or even a pure float here?

On May 06 2008 09:31 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On May 06 2008 08:46 [vital]Myth wrote: if you c/r flop you have to lead the turn. i mean think about it...if you were bluffing, the turn card would be an excellent card to continue, repping JJJ really?? i think you're totally off the mark here, imo that turn pairing J is actually an extremely bad card to continue bluffs (possibly worst card in deck). id definitely check the turn a decent amount here in joe's spot to balance my range with bluffs i gave up on because the jack fell. against a typical good aggressive regular opponent, after I've decided to check the turn and he has bet id def think c/c twice is usually the best line to proceed. i like how joe played the whole hand except the preflop call (id fold, i think its -ev to try and play AJo out of position for 4bb against a tough aggressive regular raising utg), now pay off on the river.

you really don't think people peel one and then fold if you fire on this turn? i find that most people who flat the flop are usually folding to another barrel when nothing really changes on the board (such as top card pairing)

Snap call and let him show you QJ

i hate you