Does NeillyAA have Talent?

Well, by the most recent topics of neilly battling with the Titans, Ket, Raidan, and crushing some mid stake regs, many people arguing if Neilly is a talented poker player or not.

I understand that being a good poker player consist of much discipline, br management, theory, timing, etc. and Neilly obvs lacks some of those.

The question is, Just Poker, cards DOES NEILLY HAVE TALENT?


some arguments:

On May 05 2008 02:11 Ket wrote: i think neilly gets too much hate for reasons other than not paying back loans (which is an acceptable reason for hate). why would you hate on someone and call them retarded because of how they handle their roll? different people have different priorities and values and its not a reason to hate on people who are causing u no harm just cause theirs are different to yours. also you made a comment in observer chat on the table neilly last busted about how you think neilly is stupid for believing hes gonna improve at poker and get good by doing what hes doing, or something to that effect. I believe you're completely wrong in this belief. And i think what a lot of you guys dont realise (or maybe refuse to admit) is that neilly's overall hu game is actually much stronger than you might think or that it may appear. hes probably able to crush low/midstakes hu tables for quite a sick winrate. ofcourse right now he's a very long ways from his 'goal' of being dominant at 5/10nl hu on stars, but still the level he's reached should deserve some credit. he's tough to play against and will crush lots of people who fail to properly handle his ott style, which you probably need to be a hu specialist with a decent level of theoretical understanding to properly do. its a little embarassing for me to say this as frinkx is kind of my friend, but neilly sickraped him. he might have ran above expectation but he didnt run 30 buyins above expectation. a decent 2/4 6max longterm winner who isnt a hu specialist got totally eaten alive by this degen everyone loves to hate on because he epic-failed to make the right adjustments to neilly's game (meaning it isnt easily done), and nobody gave neilly any credit for it.

On May 05 2008 08:54 locoo wrote: hm wtf, from neillys HHs and everything he isnt a talented / good player at all -.- how hard can it be to own a player that stacks offs with lowest pair no kicker no draw ? hit top pair / ez ship, frinkx probably just wanted to outplay someone that can't fold gutshot

Poll: Neilly Has Talent?
(Vote): yes
(Vote): no
(Vote): ban

On a related note, do you think Sam Farha is one of the best at PLO ?

Yes. I think his main strength is being very agressive and very unpredictable. Atleast it looks like that from the hands i see him post, people seems to tilt infinitely against him and he seems willing to put alot of pressure on people which is superimportant in HU.

He cant not have talent when he repeatedly builds midstakes rolls from nothing.

That being said, his talents are wasted because he is the biggest degenerate ever and he cant maintain a roll to save his life.

yeah he does, even though his style is unorthodox / hes making marginal plays preflop especially, he's agressive and fearless(which surely is a good thing).
Think the style he has is able to tilt people quickly. Can't speak from experience as ive never played with him in anything else as fullring/6max though (just from observing his HU games)

I definitely think he has talent if he can run 100 into 10K in a small amount of time but of course his taste of high stakes poker without a proper bankroll is his downfall.

On May 05 2008 09:46 SakiSaki wrote: He cant not have talent when he repeatedly builds midstakes rolls from nothing. That being said, his talents are wasted because he is the biggest degenerate ever and he cant maintain a roll to save his life.

On May 05 2008 09:46 SakiSaki wrote: Yes. I think his main strength is being very agressive and very unpredictable. Atleast it looks like that from the hands i see him post, people seems to tilt infinitely against him and he seems willing to put alot of pressure on people which is superimportant in HU. He cant not have talent when he repeatedly builds midstakes rolls from nothing. That being said, his talents are wasted because he is the biggest degenerate ever and he cant maintain a roll to save his life.

couldn't agree more

Neilly has talent,
but in poker there are a wide range of skills that are needed to be a successful player. Not being able to use one skill effectively hinders your progress as a whole. The majority of people who take poker serously are obviously playing to make money. So, Im assuming Neilly is playing poker to make money and not just for a laugh/fun therefore he is not a successful player. Depends what he wants to achieve with poker I guess but from what I can see, he does have talent playing no limit cash but whats the point if you are not making money. I used to do the same shit when I first started and eventually realized. Just a matter of time with him too and when he does decide to fix up his BR management skills he will move up the limits very easily and make alot of money.

He is in his own little bubble right now.

does neilly have the talent to donk up a roll from 10$ to 10k$ a several times? yes

does neilly have the talent to ever become a pro? lol no

this guy gets way too much attention.

Neilly definitely is gosu.

Yes ofc.
Entertaining one.

is it lets like neilly time? yay neilly!

Neilly used to be really bad back a while back when i almost took his br a few times but I played him the other day he absolutely raped me even though the deck hit him so hard it must have bruised his face. It didn't seem like he was as bad as he used to be and I would probably not sit against him again

well at least not for increasing my monetary status, there are much easier games

I think most of the people talking shit about neilly are those that have struggled in moving up and probably don't have 5 figure rolls and just stuck grinding. They are probably jealous that a 'donk' like neilly can run $100 into 10k repeatedly, and then 'waste' it all by busting at 5/10+. I'm sure they think its unfair he gets to run up a BR fast and then busts it while they are stuck grinding.

Also, obviously most people advise to follow BR management, grind, don't tilt etc and move up fairly slowly while taking the occasional shot. Neilly totally ignores this, so for some reason people insult him.

I have never insulted Neilly for his style (i have insulted how hes played several hands) and while i don't think its optimal or anywhere close to the best way to build a roll, who cares. Its his money and he can do what he wants with it. Assume he can afford to gambooool in this style, hes not running up sick debts IRL, or contemplating suicide everytime he busts, then who cares. If he wants to play like this cool, and i'll enjoy watching. I don't hope he fails, i don't even know him or really care if he wins/loses but its certainly entertaining watching him run nothing into a roll over and over, and personally i think it would be awesome to have THUNDERDOME neilly vs ivey sweat sometime in the near future!!!!

I don't know how many people knew xervean (sp?) but he was the original Neily, and used to run his roll up and play 5/10 and 10/20, and then bust down to his last few hundred, regrind etc. He never really got any forum love since i guess most people didn't realise. FWIW he seems fairly well grounded in life, and now is grinding sngs and seems to have realised that his gamboooling days are past him. If Neilly starts playing more seirously, develops BR management and grinds, good for him. If he wants to continue how hes playing, thats also fine. I personally think people should stfu if they are going to insult him purely for wanting to gamble.

if it's just based on playing cards he may be preety good (i dont know i havnt played him) but if you include BR managment in poker skill then hes terrible, unfortunatley you can't really have one without the other. But people w/ his kind of mentallity can defaintley make it very big very fast, but without the discpline you always risk loosing it all no matter how big you make it

zzzzz another degen donkey thread zzzzz

i dont like neilly but id love to have him prove me wrong about making it in poker since he has shown some sick HEART

exactly what he was looking for, a thread like this -.-

gosu.??

from everything i've seen he's terrible but if Ket says hes good he's good

no, he suck.

On May 05 2008 10:18 TwistedEcho wrote: I think most of the people talking shit about neilly are those that have struggled in moving up and probably don't have 5 figure rolls and just stuck grinding. They are probably jealous that a 'donk' like neilly can run $100 into 10k repeatedly, and then 'waste' it all by busting at 5/10+. I'm sure they think its unfair he gets to run up a BR fast and then busts it while they are stuck grinding. Also, obviously most people advise to follow BR management, grind, don't tilt etc and move up fairly slowly while taking the occasional shot. Neilly totally ignores this, so for some reason people insult him. I have never insulted Neilly for his style (i have insulted how hes played several hands) and while i don't think its optimal or anywhere close to the best way to build a roll, who cares. Its his money and he can do what he wants with it. Assume he can afford to gambooool in this style, hes not running up sick debts IRL, or contemplating suicide everytime he busts, then who cares. If he wants to play like this cool, and i'll enjoy watching. I don't hope he fails, i don't even know him or really care if he wins/loses but its certainly entertaining watching him run nothing into a roll over and over, and personally i think it would be awesome to have THUNDERDOME neilly vs ivey sweat sometime in the near future!!!! I don't know how many people knew xervean (sp?) but he was the original Neily, and used to run his roll up and play 5/10 and 10/20, and then bust down to his last few hundred, regrind etc. He never really got any forum love since i guess most people didn't realise. FWIW he seems fairly well grounded in life, and now is grinding sngs and seems to have realised that his gamboooling days are past him. If Neilly starts playing more seirously, develops BR management and grinds, good for him. If he wants to continue how hes playing, thats also fine. I personally think people should stfu if they are going to insult him purely for wanting to gamble.

agree except

"Its his money and he can do what he wants with it"

I thought this was the main source of the friction - the fact that it's NOT his money?

eh, im actually pretty good at hu

i lost 20 buyins, not 30, and he ran way above expectation and got a TON of situational coolers, and yes, i was trying to bluff/outplay him in a lot of hands where i shouldnt have and i tilted towards the end.

does he still have money? i wanna play him again

I THINK THAT HE IS A TALENTED PLAYER HE JUST NEEDS TO WORK ON HIS MONEY MANAGEMENT! HE CAN BUILD HIS BANK ROLL REALLY QUICK BUT DOESN'T KNOW WHEN TO CALL IT QUITS AND STAY UP!!!

On May 05 2008 11:07 DukekillrUNC wrote: I THINK THAT HE IS A TALENTED PLAYER HE JUST NEEDS TO WORK ON HIS MONEY MANAGEMENT! HE CAN BUILD HIS BANK ROLL REALLY QUICK BUT DOESN'T KNOW WHEN TO CALL IT QUITS AND STAY UP!!!

what this guy said

and i feel famous for being in neilly's quote yay!

able to play cards cannot be looked at in a vacuum. Poker Skill is much more and Neilly definitely lacks BR managment, ability to quit when he should, table selection etc.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Neilly, the opposite is true, I think he is way more entertaining than the movies and he never should quit making these sick roller coaster sessions.

Neilly, we love you the way you are. Please don't chage!!!

<3 Neilly.

Seems to me that he is getting better and better and at least has the skill to be a decent midstakes player. Obviously his BR / tilt / table selection skills are totally lacking. But if you only look at the way he plays when he's playing his best, I think he'd fall into the category of a good player. Plus his super aggro fearless style is great for HU.

Most likely he will eventually realize that he needs some BR management and he will have another 100 ---> 10k run and then start grinding 1/2 or 2/4 and move up in a more responsible way.

On May 05 2008 11:40 k2o4 wrote: Seems to me that he is getting better and better and at least has the skill to be a decent midstakes player. Obviously his BR / tilt / table selection skills are totally lacking. But if you only look at the way he plays when he's playing his best, I think he'd fall into the category of a good player. Plus his super aggro fearless style is great for HU. Most likely he will eventually realize that he needs some BR management and he will have another 100 ---> 10k run and then start grinding 1/2 or 2/4 and move up in a more responsible way.

ur a whale!

neilly fightiiiiingg~~!!!

It's impossible to tell if Nielly has "talent" or not because he never has a roll long enough to prove it. Poker skill comes into effect only in the long run and Nielly has never stuck around for the long run. I realize it's something special to run up 100 into 10k in one night, however, it's totally possible that he was just on a huge heater. Maybe he had the skills to get maximum value out of his heater, but the fact remains he had to run good in order to do something like this.

What makes a poker player good is how he handles the downswings, any monkey can win money when the deck hits him in the face, but it takes a true hero to get beat over the head with coolers and not tilt, or chase losses. Unfortunately, Neilly has proven time and time again that he can't handle the downswings because he constantly goes bust. Therefore he's not a good player. Not yet anyway.

I wont comment on any of the HU stuff as i havent watched him play at all except for a few HHs here and there. But his 6m game is really, really bad. He makes far too many spewy bad calls that are just working out for him now and really reinforcing bad habits. At lower tables (100nl down i guess) he can probably win, but IMO he is a good stretch away from being able to win at 200nl+ (6m at least).

he's bad.

him tilting frinkx was to be expected and frinkx played like a moron. doesn't make neilly good.

sure he has definitely improved in the past months, who wouldn't.. he plays a shitload and played HU with much better players than him. it still doesn't make him good or talented at poker because he's still failing at holding to some money and letting his ego out of the way.

I'd have to play him myself in order the make the assessment if he's good or not. Although Ket saying he shows promise/is currently not horrid holds some merit tho.

i wish i had more monies on stars.

agree with MaidenFan, poker skill shows itself when you stick around for the long haul, when you deal with the ugly parts.. running $100 into $10k is impressive, but really worth quite nothing considering his shortcomings in other departments. Neilly is able to do that because he doesn't seem to care. he doesn't have fear which is a huge advantage in the short run.. but most grinders have *some* sense of fear and that is what's keeping them from blowing their whole bankroll in a few hands like Neilly does all the time. Some skill in the actual game? he probably has it.. but poker in 2008 isnt all about making wicked plays, it's meeting many more criteria, of which Neilly hasn't mastered a fraction.

neilly is stu ungar re-incarnated

On May 05 2008 14:58 TalentedTom wrote: neilly is Jesus

there we go

On May 05 2008 10:34 Yugless wrote: from everything i've seen he's terrible but if Ket says hes good he's good

ryan oftentimes outplays the shit out of his opponents headsup

i rarely see people extract value the way he does. he'll win a 5bi pot w/ K9 on a 935 board vs an opponents T9, and continue to do so throughout the match (and vs other opponents).

gogo BR management, and neilly will be a superstar

who is neilly?

I tought he was good, untill I opened stars and saw how a NL50 HU player owned him for the remaining of his BR

yeha that was strange

heater is over?

On May 05 2008 15:30 Day[9] wrote: ryan oftentimes outplays the shit out of his opponents headsup i rarely see people extract value the way he does. he'll win a 5bi pot w/ K9 on a 935 board vs an opponents T9, and continue to do so throughout the match (and vs other opponents). gogo BR management, and neilly will be a superstar

so why don't u stake him for midstakes hu?

On May 05 2008 09:46 SakiSaki wrote: Yes. I think his main strength is being very agressive and very unpredictable. Atleast it looks like that from the hands i see him post, people seems to tilt infinitely against him and he seems willing to put alot of pressure