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I still can't figure this guy out

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NMcNasty    United States. Apr 30 2008 14:04. Posts 2041

I usually wont give people credit for being too tricky.

I think u gotta shove turn for protection since flush draw is so likely (unless u strongly feel he'll bluff river if missed), and just fold river as played.


JonnyCosMo   United States. Apr 30 2008 14:37. Posts 7292


  On April 30 2008 12:00 PoorUser wrote:
this is the easiest call ever imo



i feel the same way esp since u called turn

Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser 

Daut    United States. Apr 30 2008 14:42. Posts 8955

looks like 99 or a flush draw on the turn, dont know why you would ever call

NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut 

PoorUser    United States. Apr 30 2008 17:56. Posts 7472


  On April 30 2008 13:42 Daut wrote:
looks like 99 or a flush draw on the turn, dont know why you would ever call


rusrs?

Gambler Emeritus 

iakim322   United States. Apr 30 2008 18:53. Posts 1335

completely depends on opponent imo. as mezmerize said. the guy's almost certainly going to read your hand/line as pretty weak so a random bluff is definitely possible. but then again, if the guy doesn't get out of line much at all, 1 pair is usually worthless


locoo   Peru. May 01 2008 12:10. Posts 4566

im even more confused now.

My hand is very underreped, but at the same time that 2s is such a bad card to bluff on unless he has a solid read vs me (which i don't think he does) and half pot don't get many folds usually, unless he put me on like QJ, 78 only ?

bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte 

FrEaK[S.sIR]   Canada. May 01 2008 13:54. Posts 1848

I agree with daut.


kaboom   Canada. May 01 2008 15:27. Posts 261

Call your hand is way under-repped and your good here a fair amount of time, and the times your not you still get info on what he played this way.

If he's capable of raising a flush draw on the turn like others are saying his range is much much wider than just flush draw or set of 9s.

SHIP OUT 

FrEaK[S.sIR]   Canada. May 01 2008 17:14. Posts 1848


  On May 01 2008 14:27 kaboom wrote:
If he's capable of raising a flush draw on the turn like others are saying his range is much much wider than just flush draw or set of 9s.



.....because? And what are these things in his range that make it "much wider" that play this way?

 Last edit: 01/05/2008 17:14

Nazgul    Netherlands. May 01 2008 18:18. Posts 7080

jq i guess

You almost twin-caracked his AK - JonnyCosmo 

straate   Argentina. May 01 2008 19:21. Posts 2837


  On May 01 2008 17:18 Nazgul wrote:
jq i guess



not many jqs left

silverfox971: if this was a live game i would spit on you 

straate   Argentina. May 01 2008 19:22. Posts 2837


  On April 30 2008 13:04 NMcNasty wrote:
I usually wont give people credit for being too tricky.

I think u gotta shove turn for protection since flush draw is so likely (unless u strongly feel he'll bluff river if missed), and just fold river as played.



shoving is pretty bad since hes not calling with worse without some good metagame

id pitch river, but otherwise i think you played it fine

silverfox971: if this was a live game i would spit on you 

NMcNasty    United States. May 01 2008 20:04. Posts 2041

i agree he's rarely calling worse but I don't like the idea of just calling turn when u have to check-fold to half the deck, and you can't be thrilled about check-calling the other half even though u feel ur ahead on turn around 80% of the time.


Rhaegar    Bulgaria. May 01 2008 20:32. Posts 2586

We cant feel like were ahead 80% on turn and fold.

One very suspicious player 

NMcNasty    United States. May 01 2008 23:08. Posts 2041


  On May 01 2008 19:32 Rhaegar wrote:
We cant feel like were ahead 80% on turn and fold.



im advocating shoving turn and i definitely prefer calling to folding.


TT1   Canada. May 02 2008 01:15. Posts 465

you should call but he might have been slowplaying qq+ but i doubt you should worry about the flush

0.0Last edit: 02/05/2008 01:22

FrEaK[S.sIR]   Canada. May 02 2008 04:28. Posts 1848

If we can't fold when the drawing portion of his range gets there then we shouldn't be calling the turn to begin with. Shoving would turn your hand into a bluff. But if you're ahead of his turn raising range you should be calling.

The board got worse and our hand is no longer good against the majority of the range we were ahead of so we act accordingly. What's wrong with this? Given a range of 99/draw I don't see why you would play it any other way.

For what it's worth, I'd be check calling any non spade because I feel his range is extremely polarized between 99/air at that point. Though that really depends on how likely he is to be continuing betting on a missed draw.


MezmerizePLZ    United States. May 02 2008 09:29. Posts 2598

quit using the 'our hand is underepped' argument, it doesn't really matter if we still only beat a bluff


NMcNasty    United States. May 02 2008 11:26. Posts 2041

u guys are check-calling vs Q,K, and A vs a tight range?


FrEaK[S.sIR]   Canada. May 02 2008 12:16. Posts 1848


  On May 02 2008 10:26 NMcNasty wrote:
u guys are check-calling vs Q,K, and A vs a tight range?



Vs the range I put him on on the turn, yes. Those cards change very little. Our hand also looks like a mediocre made hand as a strong one would have shoved turn, as well as strong draws, and weak draws would've folded as we're out of position.

Given that our hand appears as it does, and given that the range I have assigned to him being 99/draws, as those are the only hands that make sense to me unless this guy is likely to randomly slowplay sets/overpairs, I am check calling any-non spade river. Unless I know this guy will only check behind missed draws. Which is something I should know by now anyway.

If you are afraid of a Q/K/A, you are only playing your cards. If you are shoving turn, you are only playing your cards. If you check-call any river because you called the turn, you are only playing your cards. This is bad poker.



And I agree that the "our hand is underrepped" is a very weak argument. Because for 1, who cares? I don't care if my hand is underrepped. I care what he has and if I beat that. Being underrepped isn't an excuse to be making bad calls. And for 2) Our hand isn't really underrepped. Besides the call preflop, our hand is exactly what it looks like in this spot. A decent but not strong made hand. I'd say that JJ is pretty much equal to almost any pair in this spot, besides the ability to suck out on sets and fewer overcards.

Our hand is exactly how it is represented.

 Last edit: 02/05/2008 12:17

 
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