I still can't figure this guy out

I usually wont give people credit for being too tricky.

I think u gotta shove turn for protection since flush draw is so likely (unless u strongly feel he'll bluff river if missed), and just fold river as played.

On April 30 2008 12:00 PoorUser wrote: this is the easiest call ever imo

i feel the same way esp since u called turn

looks like 99 or a flush draw on the turn, dont know why you would ever call

On April 30 2008 13:42 Daut wrote: looks like 99 or a flush draw on the turn, dont know why you would ever call

rusrs?

completely depends on opponent imo. as mezmerize said. the guy's almost certainly going to read your hand/line as pretty weak so a random bluff is definitely possible. but then again, if the guy doesn't get out of line much at all, 1 pair is usually worthless

im even more confused now.

My hand is very underreped, but at the same time that 2s is such a bad card to bluff on unless he has a solid read vs me (which i don't think he does) and half pot don't get many folds usually, unless he put me on like QJ, 78 only ?

I agree with daut.

Call your hand is way under-repped and your good here a fair amount of time, and the times your not you still get info on what he played this way.

If he's capable of raising a flush draw on the turn like others are saying his range is much much wider than just flush draw or set of 9s.

On May 01 2008 14:27 kaboom wrote: If he's capable of raising a flush draw on the turn like others are saying his range is much much wider than just flush draw or set of 9s.

.....because? And what are these things in his range that make it "much wider" that play this way?

jq i guess

On May 01 2008 17:18 Nazgul wrote: jq i guess

not many jqs left

On April 30 2008 13:04 NMcNasty wrote: I usually wont give people credit for being too tricky. I think u gotta shove turn for protection since flush draw is so likely (unless u strongly feel he'll bluff river if missed), and just fold river as played.

shoving is pretty bad since hes not calling with worse without some good metagame

id pitch river, but otherwise i think you played it fine

i agree he's rarely calling worse but I don't like the idea of just calling turn when u have to check-fold to half the deck, and you can't be thrilled about check-calling the other half even though u feel ur ahead on turn around 80% of the time.

We cant feel like were ahead 80% on turn and fold.

On May 01 2008 19:32 Rhaegar wrote: We cant feel like were ahead 80% on turn and fold.

im advocating shoving turn and i definitely prefer calling to folding.

you should call but he might have been slowplaying qq+ but i doubt you should worry about the flush

If we can't fold when the drawing portion of his range gets there then we shouldn't be calling the turn to begin with. Shoving would turn your hand into a bluff. But if you're ahead of his turn raising range you should be calling.

The board got worse and our hand is no longer good against the majority of the range we were ahead of so we act accordingly. What's wrong with this? Given a range of 99/draw I don't see why you would play it any other way.

For what it's worth, I'd be check calling any non spade because I feel his range is extremely polarized between 99/air at that point. Though that really depends on how likely he is to be continuing betting on a missed draw.

quit using the 'our hand is underepped' argument, it doesn't really matter if we still only beat a bluff

u guys are check-calling vs Q,K, and A vs a tight range?

On May 02 2008 10:26 NMcNasty wrote: u guys are check-calling vs Q,K, and A vs a tight range?

Vs the range I put him on on the turn, yes. Those cards change very little. Our hand also looks like a mediocre made hand as a strong one would have shoved turn, as well as strong draws, and weak draws would've folded as we're out of position.

Given that our hand appears as it does, and given that the range I have assigned to him being 99/draws, as those are the only hands that make sense to me unless this guy is likely to randomly slowplay sets/overpairs, I am check calling any-non spade river. Unless I know this guy will only check behind missed draws. Which is something I should know by now anyway.

If you are afraid of a Q/K/A, you are only playing your cards. If you are shoving turn, you are only playing your cards. If you check-call any river because you called the turn, you are only playing your cards. This is bad poker.



And I agree that the "our hand is underrepped" is a very weak argument. Because for 1, who cares? I don't care if my hand is underrepped. I care what he has and if I beat that. Being underrepped isn't an excuse to be making bad calls. And for 2) Our hand isn't really underrepped. Besides the call preflop, our hand is exactly what it looks like in this spot. A decent but not strong made hand. I'd say that JJ is pretty much equal to almost any pair in this spot, besides the ability to suck out on sets and fewer overcards.

Our hand is exactly how it is represented.