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Joe   Czech Republic. Apr 29 2008 09:53. Posts 5987 | | | |
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| there is a light at the end of the tunnel... (but sometimes the tunnel is long and deep as hell) | |
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Ket   United Kingdom. Apr 29 2008 10:46. Posts 8665 | | |
id check, he can easily have a better hand here and he can easily c/r riv bluff a missed heart draw (balanced by c/r riv with AA for value) or maybe some low pair he decides to turn into a bluff. its also difficult for him to pay off by check calling worse. |
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ToT)MidiaN(   United Kingdom. Apr 29 2008 11:04. Posts 5070 | | |
i dont like flop. i think you can rep some missed draws but i dunno how many worse made hands he calls on the flop, and he also may check a better hand to induce a missed draw to bluff so you could just end up getting c/red with better and sometimes also bluffed like ket said. i think as played i vbet but i dont love it and dont expect to get called by worse all that often |
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| One day good. One day bad. And some days, even hope | |
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Baalim   Mexico. Apr 29 2008 12:07. Posts 34312 | | |
hell no, what hand calls a raise on the flop that calls a vbet on the river. |
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| Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online | |
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PoorUser   United States. Apr 29 2008 14:55. Posts 7472 | | | |
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Joe   Czech Republic. Apr 29 2008 17:37. Posts 5987 | | |
Ok, this was basically just a quick thought check for me, because I feel I often miss some river value bets.
(I checked, he had JT.)
Jamie so whats ur line in this hand? |
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| there is a light at the end of the tunnel... (but sometimes the tunnel is long and deep as hell) | |
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ToT)MidiaN(   United Kingdom. Apr 29 2008 17:48. Posts 5070 | | |
unsure, i think raising flop in position is not bad afterall. i think c/ring would be bad though because there's no chance of checking back turn etc, would be a much grosser spot if he had called the flop with JT like he did here if you were oop cause he has the freedom to bluff the turn and also value bet you with almost any king, if not any king. i guess my standard line would be to either call 1/fold turn if he is not capable of firing 2nd/3rd with a wide range of draws or even air or just call down 3 streets if all draws miss/fold whatever street brings a bad card. also sometimes might call 2 to fold to river if i think he bets 2 streets with a draw but not riv when it misses. really depends on the player and how much he barrels. one negative about raising flop is that it reopens the betting though so i guess if he's never like 3bet/calling flop with a hand like JT/Kx for value or various other draws/made hands then it's ok in position as obviously you don't wanna play for stacks but you don't wanna get bluffed by his draws either. |
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| One day good. One day bad. And some days, even hope | Last edit: 29/04/2008 17:51 |
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Nazgul   Netherlands. Apr 29 2008 21:00. Posts 7080 | | |
flop raise is a classic example of you never make him fold better and always make him fold worse |
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| You almost twin-caracked his AK - JonnyCosmo | |
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[vital]Myth   United States. Apr 29 2008 22:13. Posts 12159 | | |
| | On April 29 2008 20:00 Nazgul wrote:
flop raise is a classic example of you never make him fold better and always make him fold worse |
not always. there are several draws out that he can definitely call with (like he actually did, JT). plus raising here with middle pair is kinda sick mindfuck for merging your ranges and whatnot |
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| Eh, I can go a few more orbits in life, before taxes blind me out - PoorUser | |
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Rekrul   United States. Apr 29 2008 22:45. Posts 3338 | | |
lmao at joe posting his other nit threads then questioning if he should value bet or not here
LOL CONFUSION |
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[vital]Myth   United States. Apr 29 2008 23:27. Posts 12159 | | | |
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| Eh, I can go a few more orbits in life, before taxes blind me out - PoorUser | |
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Daut   United States. Apr 30 2008 00:48. Posts 8955 | | |
*rubs crotch winking at myth* |
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| NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut | |
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NMcNasty   United States. Apr 30 2008 09:03. Posts 2041 | | | |
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Twisted   Netherlands. Apr 30 2008 13:51. Posts 10422 | | |
| | On April 29 2008 20:00 Nazgul wrote:
flop raise is a classic example of you never make him fold better and always make him fold worse |
I think raptor from CR actually thinks raising with a weak holding is good and he counters this argument by saying that a lot of scarecards can come on the turn which an agressive player will bet 100% of the time forcing you to lay down the hand.
The hand becomes easier to play when you raise the flop (and he also explains that making it easier to play is something people often call an excuse for not maximizing your EV, but when the hand becomes easier you make less mistakes).
I kinda like that thinking though I usually call flop here too. |
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