QQ 5bet 190bb deep

Submitted by : ToT)MidiaN(

FullTiltPoker Game #6195879651: Table Jackie (6 max) - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:24:31 ET - 2008/04/27
Seat 1: Storkdelamork ($1,893)
Seat 2: ToTMidiaN ($3,839)
Seat 3: yangnified ($1,097)
Seat 4: giongler346 ($1,078)
Seat 5: Shipitoverhere ($1,015)
Seat 6: spexel1 ($1,350)
yangnified posts the small blind of $5
giongler346 posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #2

Holecards
Dealt to ToTMidiaN
Shipitoverhere folds
spexel1 folds
Storkdelamork raises to $35
ToTMidiaN raises to $120
yangnified folds
giongler346 folds
Storkdelamork has 15 seconds left to act
Storkdelamork raises to $340
ToTMidiaN has 15 seconds left to act
ToTMidiaN raises to $625

I really think 5-betting here is a spew. I highly doubt villian will get it in with a wide range enough to make this profitable,even if you have been running over the table. I think it would be kinda sick as a bluff though.

I probably flat the 4-bet and play a pot in position here.

Stork = generally tight. Doubt his 4 bet is just due to being annoyed at your 3bets. 4 bet oop like this from him is almost always the nuts

big 5b would be nice. i dont mind flatting too much either in pos but still prefer 5b since still under 200 bbs

why would you like to make the 5bet big? if we make it any bigger than we did we can never bluff as we're committing ourselves?

On April 27 2008 08:10 SakiSaki wrote: I really think 5-betting here is a spew. I highly doubt villian will get it in with a wide range enough to make this profitable,even if you have been running over the table. I think it would be kinda sick as a bluff though. I probably flat the 4-bet and play a pot in position here.

What are you talking about? you say its a spew and then say it would be a sick bluff.. its totally contradictory.

How so?

i think its better when your running the table to be alleggedly committing yourself with a wide range rather '5b bluff' a wide range :| . plus if hes tight its unlikely hes reshoving as a bluff but its possible he'll stick like TT/JJ/AK/AQs in a lot easier

i don't really get your logic ;/
i dont think he has like TT/JJ/AQs very often at all. i think his range is very polarised most of the time between between bluffs and AK/QQ+ and i want him to be able to 6bet shove his bluffs, which he cant really do if i make it whatever more

I rarely disagree with you, but your logic here is too much level-driven. I try not to get into those leveling games much anymore, as its the easiest way to lose a lot.
GT-optimal play says to flat.

Edit: This reply is to PoorUser if its not obvious.

a small raise gets his range of air to play correctly

wat

opposed to flat calling, which is what im advocating.

and raising big is by far the worst option.

I think the small 5bet is best here.

Im not a huge fan of flatting cuz ur going to have to fold to cbets on A and K high flops and I'm not too comfortable stacking off on rag flops.

You HAVE to fold ? I don't get how I have to fold anything to a cbet with pos.

his range is too strong for you to be calling on those types of flops

even if you figure to be ahead 40ish% of the time its still a bad call since he can bluff the turn or draw out on you.

i'd rather just 5-bet bigger, no one is ever going to believe that you're 5 bet bluffing/fodling to shove, so making it smaller just looks stronger than you want to look imo

On April 27 2008 10:07 SakiSaki wrote: How so?

well more than contradictory its just dumb since he has been running over the table so bad he thinks his QQ could be good that deep yet you mention it as a bluff like KK would ever fold.

ive never even heard of a 6bet shove before
wtf?

On April 28 2008 23:58 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2008 10:07 SakiSaki wrote: How so? well more than contradictory its just dumb since he has been running over the table so bad he thinks his QQ could be good that deep yet you mention it as a bluff like KK would ever fold.

I think what he means is it's a good SPOT for a 5bet bluff, as in with other random cards, not that turning QQ into a bluff is good.

On April 28 2008 23:59 n0rthf4ce wrote: ive never even heard of a 6bet shove before wtf?

nit!

On April 28 2008 22:45 MezmerizePLZ wrote: i'd rather just 5-bet bigger, no one is ever going to believe that you're 5 bet bluffing/fodling to shove, so making it smaller just looks stronger than you want to look imo

holler

On April 28 2008 23:58 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2008 10:07 SakiSaki wrote: How so? well more than contradictory its just dumb since he has been running over the table so bad he thinks his QQ could be good that deep yet you mention it as a bluff like KK would ever fold.

I mention its good as a bluff because I think he will fold out almost everything but AA/KK. Thats also why its bad to do this with QQ for value.


??????

Im not saying its good to bluff with QQ if that wasnt totally completely dumbnuts obvious...

ic what u meant now.

On April 27 2008 12:21 PoorUser wrote: wat

edit of the year

I usually call here I guess but after reading Mez's words Im sold on that

yeah i thought that edit got it across better

Huh? If your claiming that your 5 betting/folding to shove as a bluff line then I can honestly say that I cannot comment on this hand caz thats something I dont have in my game lol... I think a huge 5 bet or a shove does the trick better.

Submitted by : ToT)MidiaN(

Full Tilt Poker Game #6184422863: Table Snow Flat (6 max) - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:59:18 ET - 2008/04/26
Seat 1: WhoIsThisGuy ($1,736.30)
Seat 2: Shipitoverhere ($1,000)
Seat 3: ToTMidiaN ($1,709.25)
Seat 4: drainbamaged82 ($1,788)
Seat 5: Storkdelamork ($1,000)
Seat 6: Liquid_Club ($166.40)
Shipitoverhere posts the small blind of $5
ToTMidiaN posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #1

Holecards
Dealt to ToTMidiaN
drainbamaged82 folds
Storkdelamork folds
Liquid_Club folds
WhoIsThisGuy raises to $30
Shipitoverhere adds $5
Shipitoverhere folds
drainbamaged82 stands up
ToTMidiaN raises to $105
WhoIsThisGuy has 15 seconds left to act
WhoIsThisGuy raises to $255
ToTMidiaN has 15 seconds left to act
ToTMidiaN raises to $455
WhoIsThisGuy has 15 seconds left to act
WhoIsThisGuy folds
Uncalled bet of $200 returned to ToTMidiaN
oldpokerwizard sits down
ToTMidiaN shows Seven Five high
ToTMidiaN wins the pot ($515)
oldpokerwizard adds $400

Summary
Total pot $515 | Rake $0
Seat 1: WhoIsThisGuy (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Shipitoverhere (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: ToTMidiaN (big blind) collected ($515)
Seat 4: drainbamaged82 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Storkdelamork didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Liquid_Club didn't bet (folded)

lol jesus christ.... I love it in a real sick way.

You're my new hero btw

btw that's the same table as where i 5bet with QQ vs storkdelamork in the opening post if that changes anything about this hand