AA deep vs redargoe

Submitted by : Joe

PokerStars Game #16958183911: Hold'em No Limit ($3/$6) - 2008/04/24 - 10:18:48 (ET)
Table 'Impala II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Magistr_Ludi ($603 in chips)
Seat 2: crew27 ($528.20 in chips)
Seat 3: mickdmac ($678.30 in chips)
Seat 4: redargoe ($2165.10 in chips)
Seat 5: binda ($600 in chips)
Seat 6: Joeik ($1404.65 in chips)
Magistr_Ludi: posts small blind $3
crew27: posts big blind $6

Holecards
Dealt to Joeik
mickdmac: folds
redargoe: raises $12 to $18
binda: folds
Joeik : raises $66 to $84
Magistr_Ludi: folds
crew27: folds
redargoe: raises $271 to $355
Joeik : ?

What's the question here =[

You can't ever flatcall the 4bet because your AA is face-up. Just tank it for 20~25 sec and shove making it look like AK or JJ or something.

twisted so you're telling me you flat / shove flop here with non AA hands like JTs all the time eh?

shove looks more like AA than flatcalling does imo. i dunno Joe's image but i would think a smart opponent would narrow his shoving range 2 buyins deep to very few hands in this spot and even though i've seen hands where redargoe gambles insanely, is he insane enough to call a shove here with any less than KK? i would gamble a bit here, i understand redargoe is quite aggro and is very likely to bet the flop yes? flatcall

jimjam..if hes folding a hand to a shove that hes 4betting for value your doing something wrong

He stacks off pre a little light and is a tad nitty post, making this an easy shove.

I don't mind flatting this vs some people, there are plenty out there who will just cbet/call if they have any piece of the flop.

On April 24 2008 07:51 PoorUser wrote: jimjam..if hes folding a hand to a shove that hes 4betting for value your doing something wrong

I think he is quite likely semi-bluffing here, at least its definately a considerable part of his range. He just hates to be reraised preflop.

On April 24 2008 07:33 Twisted wrote: What's the question here =[ You can't ever flatcall the 4bet because your AA is face-up. Just tank it for 20~25 sec and shove making it look like AK or JJ or something.

That's not the reason you don't flat here. It doesn't matter if your hand looks like AA, because the only hands he's 4betting this big this deep are AA,KK and bluffs.

You don't flat here, because if he has KK he can't fold to a shove (otherwise his 4bet makes no sense), whereas if you call you will spike that unfortunate set or the board is monotone and he doesn't have that suit. He can also hit something better than a pair with his bluffing range (yeah, by calling you're giving him a chance to cbet with that range as well, but the aforementioned things outweigh that).

I don't like a tiny raise back, because while practically there's no difference between a shove and investing 40% of your stack it will look like AA and he might just fold KK because of that.

Redargoe is easily 4betting JJ+ and AK here and is easily calling a shove with it. I think he'll do the same with AQs and TT sometimes too.

instantly min5bet to make it look like a misclick

You have to shove here. He'll possibly look you up with JJ/QQ AQ/AK depending on his level of frustration with you.

Anything else is fancy play syndrome.

On April 24 2008 08:27 nolan wrote: You have to shove here. He'll possibly look you up with JJ/QQ AQ/AK depending on his level of frustration with you. Anything else is fancy play syndrome.

agreed red gets it in lite pre... this shouldnt be much of a Q

he'll get it in especially light if you've been playing back at him a lot. Just shove.

On April 24 2008 08:22 NMcNasty wrote: Redargoe is easily 4betting JJ+ and AK here and is easily calling a shove with it. I think he'll do the same with AQs and TT sometimes too.

what a spewtard

shove rly rly rly fast. like lazer speed

he is never calling with AQ are u ppl insane?

If your really playing 24/21 why is this even a hard situation? If redargoe is 4 betting a hand for value he is never folding to a 5 bet shove. If he's doing this as a bluff, your probably not going to get another chip into the pot post flop if you flat call anyways.

On April 24 2008 08:06 tomson wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2008 07:33 Twisted wrote: What's the question here =[ You can't ever flatcall the 4bet because your AA is face-up. Just tank it for 20~25 sec and shove making it look like AK or JJ or something. That's not the reason you don't flat here. It doesn't matter if your hand looks like AA, because the only hands he's 4betting this big this deep are AA,KK and bluffs. You don't flat here, because if he has KK he can't fold to a shove (otherwise his 4bet makes no sense), whereas if you call you will spike that unfortunate set or the board is monotone and he doesn't have that suit. He can also hit something better than a pair with his bluffing range (yeah, by calling you're giving him a chance to cbet with that range as well, but the aforementioned things outweigh that). I don't like a tiny raise back, because while practically there's no difference between a shove and investing 40% of your stack it will look like AA and he might just fold KK because of that.

I know that.

I was just outlining the possibilities and that one didn't occur to me at the time when I made the post. Not shoving here is retarded anyway so I didn't think it through that much anyway.

On April 24 2008 12:13 Baal wrote: he is never calling with AQ are u ppl insane?

He's never 4 betting AQ? And if he is, he knows he's doing it purely as a bluff.

On April 24 2008 14:20 JonnyCosMo wrote: [QUOTE]On April 24 2008 12:13 Baal wrote: he is never calling with AQ are u ppl insane?

He's never 4 betting AQ? And if he is, he knows he's doing it purely as a bluff.[/QUOTE

i said he is never CALLING with AQ not 4 betting....


btw i love the mini-raise thing especially if he is frustrating i think we give him much more rope than if we shove

unless you do mini raising here as a bluff as well as value dont do it its way too transparent

fake misclicking doesnt work that often and u gotta do it in obscure situations. like flatting AA behind someone and instaminraising someones squeeze. it's an art

On April 24 2008 14:59 FrinkX wrote: unless you do mini raising here as a bluff as well as value dont do it its way too transparent

The times I instaminraise are very situation and usually because I figure they're going to respond to it by doing something stupid. I can bluff with it once in awhile with it but people will do really stupid shit as their brain explodes when you do it.

It has to be insta though. Like you're ready for them to 4bet you and have your mouse hovering over the spot.

ya ofc it has to be insta

i just think redargoe will see through it unless u have done it to him before

hes either pot commited himself or hes straight bluffing and giving up on 90% of flops

he plays 88+ for 100bb stacks like its his job, for 200bb he felts KK+/AK

On April 24 2008 15:58 FrinkX wrote: ya ofc it has to be insta i just think redargoe will see through it unless u have done it to him before

You get extra EV for style though.

isnt insta rep misclick raise like too polarized towards the range of ur good hands too much?

and the fact that u rarely misclick much in a 200+bb pot anyway...

too transparent?

On April 24 2008 21:23 JYang wrote: isnt insta rep misclick raise like too polarized towards the range of ur good hands too much? and the fact that u rarely misclick much in a 200+bb pot anyway... too transparent?

Yeh, and pushing 200bb isn't going to polarize anything, right?

You do it because they might do something stupid. You'd be surprised how much a minraise will make people's heads explode in the right spot.

You can make a lot of plays that are, on their face, transparent but are done to take advantage of the likelihood of stupidity/misinterpretation.

It's not like I'm advocating minraising vs somebody in a sane mind set. You do it to induce tilt or stupidity. Not because it's actually technically optimal.

i have a problem with minraising here because redargoe is going to interpret it as 1 of 2 things, giving u a 50% (probably less cuz i certainly think he'll interpret it as exactly what u have) chance to get paid off. minraising here as a bluff would be pretty nice if u wanna go all metagame tricky etc blabla

imo just shoving or reraise commiting or whatever u want is far superior since it most certainly can be more than just AA that u have and he will stack off a bit lighter more often imo

i agree u most certainly can make transparent, obscure plays vs certain people and i dont think redargoe is one of them. i think these sort of plays should only be used if there is a high % chance that they'll get paid off (unless they are used more than once in a blue moon).

he has QQ/KK/AA we ARRIN