Do you valuebet here?

Submitted by : ToT)MidiaN(

PokerStars Game #16939363317: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/04/23 - 14:09:32 (ET)
Table 'Ascanios' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Pacuno ($1052 in chips)
Seat 2: ooooooooooh ($1189.50 in chips)
Seat 3: L@ndy ($516 in chips)
Seat 4: Hesselgren ($985 in chips)
Seat 5: ToTMidiaN ($1218.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Killer_ooooo ($1569 in chips)
Killer_ooooo: posts small blind $5
Pacuno: posts big blind $10

Holecards
Dealt to ToTMidiaN
ooooooooooh: raises $20 to $30
L@ndy: folds
Hesselgren: folds
ToTMidiaN : calls $30
Killer_ooooo: folds
Pacuno: folds

Flop (Pot : $75.00)

   
ooooooooooh: bets $60
ToTMidiaN : calls $60

Turn (Pot : $195.00)

   
ooooooooooh: bets $145
ToTMidiaN : calls $145

River (Pot : $485.00)

   
ooooooooooh: checks
ToTMidiaN

against a decent player, probably not

since there is no draw you couldnt have since u called turn and u didnt move in then as a bluff i dont think he is trying to induce a FD to bet and he takes you to value town with TT+ Jx on the river imo, ithink there is value here from any PP 7x, i bet.

i vbet

definetely value bet

minbet call raise

the answer to your question lies in another question

do you ever float that turn with a hand you're bluffing with on the river

rarely to never and yea i doubt he thinks i do unless he thinks im a tard (i havent played with him much before and have been splashing around tons in this session so far), i feel i have have been running him over. just because i almost never have air is why i was like i almost never see him c/cing and at the same time i almost never see him checking TT+ either as he would obv just go 3 streets of value.

these hands happened some time after this one (like 20 minutes after maybe):

Submitted by : ToT)MidiaN(

PokerStars Game #16939855548: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/04/23 - 14:32:40 (ET)
Table 'Ascanios' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Pacuno ($1017 in chips)
Seat 2: ooooooooooh ($1000 in chips)
Seat 3: bph07 ($397 in chips)
Seat 4: Hesselgren ($1000 in chips)
Seat 5: ToTMidiaN ($2620.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Killer_ooooo ($1621 in chips)
bph07: posts small blind $5
Hesselgren: posts big blind $10

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to ToTMidiaN
ToTMidiaN : raises $25 to $35
Killer_ooooo: folds
Pacuno: folds
ooooooooooh: raises $85 to $120
bph07: folds
Hesselgren: folds
ToTMidiaN : raises $150 to $270
ooooooooooh: raises $730 to $1000 and is all-in
ToTMidiaN : calls $730

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $2,015.00)

   

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $2,015.00)

   

River (Pot : $2,015.00)

   

Showdown
ToTMidiaN : shows (a pair of Threes)
ooooooooooh: shows (two pair, Tens and Threes)
ooooooooooh collected $2012 from pot

Summary
Total pot $2015 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: Pacuno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ooooooooooh (button) showed and won ($2012) with two pair, Tens and Threes
Seat 3: bph07 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Hesselgren (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: ToTMidiaN showed and lost with a pair of Threes
Seat 6: Killer_ooooo folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Submitted by : ToT)MidiaN(

PokerStars Game #16939826580: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/04/23 - 14:31:16 (ET)
Table 'Ascanios' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Pacuno ($1022 in chips)
Seat 2: ooooooooooh ($1010 in chips)
Seat 4: Hesselgren ($955 in chips)
Seat 5: ToTMidiaN ($1607.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Killer_ooooo ($1621 in chips)
Pacuno: posts small blind $5
ooooooooooh: posts big blind $10
bph07: sits out

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to ToTMidiaN
Hesselgren: folds
ToTMidiaN : raises $25 to $35
Killer_ooooo: folds
Pacuno: folds
ooooooooooh: raises $85 to $120
ToTMidiaN : calls $85

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $245.00)

   
ooooooooooh: bets $170
ToTMidiaN : raises $243 to $413
ooooooooooh: raises $477 to $890 and is all-in
ToTMidiaN : calls $477

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $2,025.00)

   

River (Pot : $2,025.00)

   

Showdown
ooooooooooh: shows (two pair, Eights and Sevens)
ToTMidiaN : shows (two pair, Nines and Eights)
ToTMidiaN collected $2023 from pot

Summary
Total pot $2025 | Rake $2
Board  
Seat 1: Pacuno (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: ooooooooooh (big blind) showed and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
Seat 4: Hesselgren folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ToTMidiaN showed and won ($2023) with two pair, Nines and Eights
Seat 6: Killer_ooooo (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

If you feel he never checks with a hand that beats you and all hands that check you beat, even if his range is made up mostly of air, bet. Do it enough and he'll start calling you lighter.

Plus, nobody folds boats.

On April 23 2008 14:35 Skoal wrote: the answer to your question lies in another question do you ever float that turn with a hand you're bluffing with on the river

eh, if opponent is retarded spewmonkey then does this even matter?

opp is prob retarded spewmonkey anyway. i think this is a super standard vbet, esp after seeing the other 2 hands you posted

I think check is standard but I like the bet here.

vs good opposition i think its usually bad

probably check since your never bluffing

hes a dumb hu sng player though so hes probably calling really thin so maybe vs him you should bet anyways

and dont u play like 35/26 and are ridiculously aggro? i think u can easily get away with a vbet here

Meh, very dependent on history. I really have to know I'm tilting the shit out of someone to make a value bet here.

You're gonna get check-raised a decent amount i think which is another problem.

some intresting replys in this thread.

Totally standard to valuebet here imo.

He might even look you up with A-high. I don't think it's sick at all, totally standard.

On April 23 2008 20:24 MuckingUrMom wrote: You're gonna get check-raised a decent amount i think which is another problem.

By what? who ever check raises here? Does he really expect me to even bet the river often? If he had like TT+ he would surely just go for 3barrels of value cause he'd be scared I check behind a pocket pair 7x or pocket below below 7? And lots of people even say they check back 88 or 99 here so I don't see why he would ever c/r for value here and c/r as a bluff seems dumb so???

On April 23 2008 15:26 [vital]Myth wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2008 14:35 Skoal wrote: the answer to your question lies in another question do you ever float that turn with a hand you're bluffing with on the river eh, if opponent is retarded spewmonkey then does this even matter? opp is prob retarded spewmonkey anyway. i think this is a super standard vbet, esp after seeing the other 2 hands you posted

Yea those hands were like 20 minutes later though so can't totally base this hand on those, but it does show that I was getting to him and knew he was gonna break and fuck up at some point

On April 23 2008 15:26 [vital]Myth wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2008 14:35 Skoal wrote: the answer to your question lies in another question do you ever float that turn with a hand you're bluffing with on the river eh, if opponent is retarded spewmonkey then does this even matter? opp is prob retarded spewmonkey anyway. i think this is a super standard vbet, esp after seeing the other 2 hands you posted

Judging by his stats he's not a retarded spewmonkey, he was like 20/15/2 and was almost letting me run over him for the first hour of the session.

HU I would always bet here obv, but in a ring game vs an UTG raiser, I'm not sure.... t_t

he might check raise you all in with a loose utg raise with 34s !

100% vbet. Im not sure if we should bet the worst hands in our range as a bluff (floated AK/AQ) or the 7x as a split-bluff though.

And its obv a small bet (like 1/2 pot) and we obv snap call shove.

Edit: Hmm, after some thinking about it, it really depends on our hand range here. In some cases we probably just check it down happily.

i wouldn't over think it, we almost always have the best hand so we should bet

ooooooooooh is actually a personal friend of mine. He used to be very lag, but recently tightened up his game, keeping pots small oop. I don't want to say too much about him but i'll can reasonably say that he will call you with a lot here.

results?

I bet like 323 and he folded after thinking for like 5-10 seconds. Later he said he had AK and was clearly thinking about calling