NL600 KK Preflop kinda deep with weird action

Submitted by : JonnyCosMo

POKERSTARS GAME #16902803459: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2008/04/21 - 21:49:20 (ET)
Table 'Irma' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: thelou23 ($1226.35 in chips)
Seat 2: rOdey37 ($606 in chips)
Seat 3: urcatchingup ($660 in chips)
Seat 4: plghh ($609 in chips)
Seat 5: JonnyCosMo ($1476.70 in chips)
Seat 6: bfl4me ($817.05 in chips)
plghh: posts small blind $3
JonnyCosMo : posts big blind $6

Holecards
Dealt to JonnyCosMo
bfl4me: raises $18 to $24
thelou23: calls $24
rOdey37: folds
urcatchingup: folds
plghh: calls $21
JonnyCosMo : raises $64 to $88
bfl4me: raises $729.05 to $817.05 and is all-in
thelou23: raises $409.30 to $1226.35 and is all-in
plghh: folds
JonnyCosMo said, "rofl wat?"

I call and don't feel to terrible about it

learn how to fold newb

On April 22 2008 15:30 JonnyCosMo wrote: I would have squeezed 99 and snap called for value and have been very comfortable with the results.

then won't thelou be re-shoving with a much wider range than usual?

surely QQ+ and AK

this seems like a standard cosmo wahhhhh/i run bad post

just fold

no way i'd call in a million years. you only have 88$ invested. there are FAR better spots than this one.

with no history with delou how can you call? does he even notice what you guys are doing? i.e. does he 4bet when you guys do your raise-3bet dance?

I assume people are playing their own cards until they show me otherwise.

wtf

oh wowwwwwwwwwww, i suck at reading hh's

i just now noticed that lou flatted the original raise pf, i guess his re-shove does look a lot scarier now

but i can still see lou playing AK and possibly QQ this way if he thinks that you or any others left to act are going to squeeze light

double post

i think that you're ahead a lot of the time here (maybe 75%+), however i'm not sure its EV+ with hte dollars involved if the table is particularly soft in any way.

i'd probably let this go. assigning them some reasonable ranges (99+, AQ AK) you're only at best around 55% to win...

baby 3bet is really ugly, make a pot sized 3bet.. esp w/ these stacks.

On April 22 2008 16:37 nolan wrote: i'd probably let this go. assigning them some reasonable ranges (99+, AQ AK) you're only at best around 55% to win...

uhm you realize that would be a massively +EV call and folding would be a major blunder?

On April 22 2008 16:49 taqtiX wrote: baby 3bet is really ugly, make a pot sized 3bet.. esp w/ these stacks. Show nested quote + On April 22 2008 16:37 nolan wrote: i'd probably let this go. assigning them some reasonable ranges (99+, AQ AK) you're only at best around 55% to win... uhm you realize that would be a massively +EV call and folding would be a major blunder?

On April 22 2008 15:55 Day[9] wrote: just fold no way i'd call in a million years. you only have 88$ invested. there are FAR better spots than this one.

why would you want to look for better spots when you can put your money in with very decent equity against their range?

bfl4me has AK and thelou23 has AA every time

+ Show Spoiler +

But seriously though...I think thelou's flat and then reshove this deep would probably scare the shit out of me. Its not like hes trying to isolate the "shortstack" whos all in with JJ or something. He doesnt have to give you credit for a monster because it looks like you could be squeezing I guess, but still I think hes not showing up with QQ here too much bec he has to put bl4me on at least AK right?

But after being scared about the flat/reshove I tell myself bfl4me has AK and thelou has QQ and I'll hold for the monster pot.

extremely easy fold

would be closer with 100bb, std fold for 200bb

thelou's line is the same as a limp/reraise line, which is AA like .. 95% of the time, and deepstacked makes it a much easier decision

100bb i am never folding
this deep if thelou has a clue you can find a fold here, probably not cause KK = AA preflop =

So someone overbet shoves and someone else shoves OVER that being 200bb deep.

Such an easy fold.

On April 22 2008 16:57 SneakrFreakr wrote: Show nested quote + On April 22 2008 15:55 Day[9] wrote: just fold no way i'd call in a million years. you only have 88$ invested. there are FAR better spots than this one. why would you want to look for better spots when you can put your money in with very decent equity against their range?

i can't think of a range that doesn't include AA an overwhelming majority of the time

On April 22 2008 17:12 [vital]Myth wrote: extremely easy fold

so how does the guy play AK or QQ?

Also the callers stats don't say to me he's good or anything, there's always the slight chance he's just spazzing out because you two are playing so ridiculously (well ok like very small chance but still)

He's going to have AA more often than AK here considering we have KK, I also would be inclined to think that he never flats/reraise with AK ..... even less with QQ lol

It's such an AA line...

wtf this is such an easy fold

ur opponent is 24/20. what flats preflop here that continues? the only hands he flats are like 22-77 and suited connectors. none of these hands can go in vs him

the ONLY hand thelou can have in this spot is AA and *maybe* KK. this is so unreal obvious

On April 23 2008 14:00 Day[9] wrote: Show nested quote + On April 22 2008 16:57 SneakrFreakr wrote:   On April 22 2008 15:55 Day[9] wrote: just fold no way i'd call in a million years. you only have 88$ invested. there are FAR better spots than this one. why would you want to look for better spots when you can put your money in with very decent equity against their range? i can't think of a range that doesn't include AA an overwhelming majority of the time

I've seen you make a couple of posts now about "looking for better spots" in cash game threads. This isn't a tournament, if you think a decision is +EV (and by the way you exagerated "FAR better spots than this one" it seems like you thought there is EV here) then you go with it. Maybe you are just misrepresenting yourself.

BTW I think folding KK 6max is never SUPER EASY like u guys are saying but this deep without any specific reads I'd give him credit for the other KK or AA. The other thing that makes this not as close and easy as you guys are making it out to be is the sick amount of almost dead money in the pot that UTG has put in

So we should draw to 2 outs because of dead money? I really think thelou has AA here like 99,9% of the time, the 0.1% being a misclick

I think thelou can shove JJ+ in his spot almost always if he's paying attention to the dynamics of the situation because bfl4me is full of it soooooooo often here to the point where you almost don't have to put a range on him. My question, I guess, is how often does someone flat a hand like JJ or QQ here as a trap line being somewhat deep vs multiple people at the table. That's what made it really unsettling for me, caz it almost only makes sense to do it with AA. But I doubt it's 99.9% of the time Fayth because people are dumb and do random dumb things.

And I'm with Smuft, folding KK is never easy in 6-max and if it is your probably not playing optimally. Nits -_-;;

wtf pathetically pride yourself more on being a "lagtard" and berate others by calling them "nits" because you simply cannot comprehend a FACE UP SITUATION

NO, he CANNOT have JJ or QQ here. They are too vulnerable and based on who the initial raiser was he is missing way too much value by not 3 betting pre. his stats say what his exact range is as well as hes putting in 200 bb when you can quite easily have a good hand

this is so unreal face up you monkey

On April 23 2008 20:01 MuckingUrMom wrote: Show nested quote + On April 22 2008 17:12 [vital]Myth wrote: extremely easy fold so how does the guy play AK or QQ?

he obviously 3 bets them pre?

lol wow. how is this even a thread?

obv 100 bb insta ship it in but shit..

I probably ask one of my room mates to press the fold button, because I cant force myself to ever fold KK preflop. If there is noone at home to help me, I probably call and pray.
(=> I think calling is -EV.)

i hate the "better spots" wtf... we are poker players we play any positive equity not for spots.

i think this is ez fold too but im fr nit and in fr its super standard

but on the better spots discussion i think if we are poker players playin for a living, we can def use the better spots excuse to reduce headaches from variance

tournament players play for spots

cosmo is a fish. learn what hand ranges and equity is not just that KK is a good hand.

-_-newb

On April 24 2008 21:14 JYang wrote: i think this is ez fold too but im fr nit and in fr its super standard but on the better spots discussion i think if we are poker players playin for a living, we can def use the better spots excuse to reduce headaches from variance make sure our vaginal fluid doesn't make a mess.

FYP

imo it would be ridiculously sick for lou to have QQ or JJ here in this spot
as for "looking for better spots", it does have some merit here because you're sitting deep. i'd rather sit with 200bb effective stacks vs someone i have an edge on than 100bb effective stacks. but even still the EV difference would have to be tiny before i consider it.

gotta be delusional to think we are good here with KK more than 30% of the time

On April 25 2008 18:48 Fayth wrote: gotta be delusional to think we are good here with KK more than 10% of the time

given the history you have written i think its an ez call. if you are comfortable valuecalling 99 to the opener's shove, why wouldnt the flatter shove w/ QQ/JJ for value? the chances of you calling are nearly 0 (if you are being wild but somehow consider folding KK) and QQ/JJ are surely ahead of the opener's shoving range if 99 is as well.

maybe i just suck? --;

really depends on how observant thelou23 is and how aggressive his tendencies are. the way you all talk about him makes him sound terrible tbh, and if thats the case i guess u can fold.

ya u suck

On April 26 2008 00:53 n0rthf4ce wrote: if you are comfortable valuecalling 99 to the opener's shove, why wouldnt the flatter shove w/ QQ/JJ for value?

because he's an idiot

he simply cant have qq jj tt here even tho it would be a perfect shove for him to do, but he just cant have thos ehand spf