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I was just watching the latest PAD when a situation came up that made me think of a game I was playing in a about a year ago. The situation was that Antonino could see the cards of the player on his left (Eli Elezra) and he vocalized his dilemma with the table as well as warning Eli that he could see his cards if he chose to do so. Howard Lederer then made a comment something along the lines of "well, you've done exactly what you are required to do by letting him know you can see his cards. He is a professional and if he choses not to rectify the problem then you are doing no wrong by looking."
I thought it was pretty good of Antonino to do so, but at the same time I thought it was expected of him. I mean, they are both named pros and it's being aired on TV so he should probably speak up about it for a variety of reasons. Mainly for the integrity of the game.
This reminded me of a situation of a live 2-5 NL game I was playing in roughly a year ago where I could see the cards of the player to my right. He was obviously very drunk, playing quite loose and very very poorly. In the beginning I was sort of shocked I could literally see every hand from this guy. Then I leaned towards telling the guy, and I was genuinely starting to feel bad for the guy. (He was making pretty retarded bluffs every hand, wondering why he was always getting called, not getting value from his big hands..etc) I decided to go for a cigarette with a friend of mine who was also playing in the game and talked to him about what I should do. After thinking for a while I decided it was his own mistake for exposing his cards, not protecting himself, and I was just lucky to be sitting in the perfect seat.

Poll: What should I have done?
(Vote): Politely tell him I could see his cards, once.
(Vote): Insist that he protect his hand if he keeps it up.
(Vote): Take full advantage.
(Vote): Move seats.
(Vote):
(Vote):

Poll: Would it make a difference if he was a regular
(Vote): Yes.
(Vote): No.
(Vote):
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| give them nothing, but take from them.. everything. | |
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kimseongchan   United States. Mar 28 2008 04:45. Posts 1757 | | |
give them nothing, but take from them.. everything. |
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kantoiki   Australia. Mar 28 2008 05:03. Posts 3193 | | |
I guess depends on how much the money means to you but personally I'd just tell him once and then take full advantage if it continues.
edit: and no it doesn't matter if it's a reg or not. I'd apply the same to both |
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| muckv - i have an iq of 180 and i want someone to teach me how to take a shit IN the toilet. | Last edit: 28/03/2008 05:04 |
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Ftrunkz   Australia. Mar 28 2008 05:04. Posts 126 | | |
I'd tell them... mainly because if you got caught peaking at the persons cards and they were a crazy enough person, they'd probably fuck your shit up  |
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| BR management is for girls. | |
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Kapol   Poland. Mar 28 2008 05:20. Posts 2822 | | |
cheat mode ON
gogogogogogogogo |
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| BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) | Last edit: 28/03/2008 05:20 |
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Oly   United Kingdom. Mar 28 2008 05:23. Posts 841 | | |
Telling them is simply your own choice, you obviously don't have to. I'm pissed off that I'm pretty sure I always would say something (and have before).
Once ages ago when I was a total newbie at the casino, a guy told me really early on that he could sometimes see my cards. Then I stacked him. |
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ggplz   United Kingdom. Mar 28 2008 05:36. Posts 10431 | | |
u gotta tell them at least once imo |
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| tripletii: why dont you LOL my fucking asshole | |
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[vital]Myth   United States. Mar 28 2008 05:41. Posts 8941 | | |
what the FUCK? NEVER tell somebody you can see his cards at your table. ESPECIALLY if he's drunk and to your right. seriously you must hate money AND be retarded to think that you should tell him. of course it doesn't make a difference if he's a regular.
seriously, like...if you try to fold your hand face down but you accidentally flip it up, then that's just part of the game and you pay for your own retardation. or if you accidentally muck the best hand, then once again you're paying for your own retardation. if you don't properly shield your hole cards, that's no different. it's your own fault and you will pay dearly for it, and you should. |
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| Wednesday night, Im on the list: T-Pain plus three | Last edit: 28/03/2008 05:44 |
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[vital]Myth   United States. Mar 28 2008 05:51. Posts 8941 | | |
btw it's really common to be able to see the hole cards of somebody next to you. i have sat with somebody to my left or right who exposed his hole cards to me probably 15 times in my life. and like 9 or 10 of my most profitable sessions were among those 15 |
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| Wednesday night, Im on the list: T-Pain plus three | |
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ggplz   United Kingdom. Mar 28 2008 05:57. Posts 10431 | | |
| | On March 28 2008 04:45 kimseongchan wrote:
give them nothing, but take from them.. everything. |
nit |
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| tripletii: why dont you LOL my fucking asshole | |
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tokeweed   Philippines. Mar 28 2008 05:57. Posts 1738 | | |
if it's a tourney tell him... if it's some small stakes cash game, fuck it... |
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ggplz   United Kingdom. Mar 28 2008 05:58. Posts 10431 | | |
i know what your saying myth and maybe its fine but i would feel kinda obligated to warn someone about it tho T_T |
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| tripletii: why dont you LOL my fucking asshole | |
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[vital]Myth   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:00. Posts 8941 | | | |
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| Wednesday night, Im on the list: T-Pain plus three | |
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Floofy   Canada. Mar 28 2008 06:03. Posts 6597 | | |
wait wtf this is legal
it hapened to me once i had some fish who would kinda expose his cards but i thought it was kinda illegal to focus on looking at his cards
so i just didnt pay attention to it (and even then i think i still saw his cards from time to time on accident) |
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| i masturbate SO much. masturbating fucking ROCKS and im SO GOOD at it jesus christ i should do it right now but frinkx is standing RIGHT next to me - Myth | Last edit: 28/03/2008 06:04 |
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Rekrul   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:06. Posts 2486 | | |
| | On March 28 2008 05:41 [vital]Myth wrote:
what the FUCK? NEVER tell somebody you can see his cards at your table. ESPECIALLY if he's drunk and to your right. seriously you must hate money AND be retarded to think that you should tell him. of course it doesn't make a difference if he's a regular.
seriously, like...if you try to fold your hand face down but you accidentally flip it up, then that's just part of the game and you pay for your own retardation. or if you accidentally muck the best hand, then once again you're paying for your own retardation. if you don't properly shield your hole cards, that's no different. it's your own fault and you will pay dearly for it, and you should. |
if thats how you think then karma is going to crawl up and bite you in the ass one day
every single time i even think i could catch a whiff of seeing the persons cards next to me i let them know to be more careful when they check their cards
yesterday we got to the river checked down in a pot that i riased to 50 and got called by the button on 5 10, 115 in pot. weird board i had eight high i flipped my hand over I HAVE THE EIGHT...chinese guy kept staring at my hand i kept saying eight high I HAVE THE EIGHT EIGHT HIGH...then finally he mucked
person next to the chink said he showed bottom pair, and the german faggot to my right smiled at me and was like hahaha nice dan he just mucked the winning hand, nh..then the chinese guy was like FUCKKKK
i immediately threw 50$ to the chinese guy
dealer, chinese guy, and the other 6 nits at the table (elky was only other one) stare in disbelieve at what i just did
nits are like wow you are so nice, chinese guy was like ok thank u thank u thank u u real man i keep this aside incase i win big i multiply it and give it to u chinese custom (of course he ended up going broke so some nit got my money)...but still its hte principle
you fucking faggot nits trying to get every edge you can, i will fucking kill you, if i ever see one of you able to see someones cards next to u and u dont say a word i will get up and smack your fucking face then step on your fucking skull |
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| LOvEDoM says: me hate he, me re raise | |
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[vital]Myth   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:09. Posts 8941 | | | |
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| Wednesday night, Im on the list: T-Pain plus three | |
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Floofy   Canada. Mar 28 2008 06:11. Posts 6597 | | |

Poll: Whos right?
(Vote): Myth obv
(Vote): Myth i think, not sure
(Vote): Rekrul i think, not sure
(Vote): Rekrul obv
(Vote): i can't answer polls because i'm retarded
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| i masturbate SO much. masturbating fucking ROCKS and im SO GOOD at it jesus christ i should do it right now but frinkx is standing RIGHT next to me - Myth | |
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Rekrul   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:15. Posts 2486 | | |
[vital]Myth says:
i actually wonder if there's a written rule about being able to see someone's cards
[vital]Myth says:
bc like
[vital]Myth says:
your example of the guy mucking the winning hand
[vital]Myth says:
rules clearly state
[vital]Myth says:
that in that situation
[vital]Myth says:
you win the pot
life isnt about rules
if a hired killa fucking breaks your skull unnoticed with no evidence because the wrong guy got mad about you continually seeing other ppls cards and saying nothing, even though law dictates that he should indeed go to jail, he will walk free to break more skulls because he did it good and clean and didnt get caught
even though im trying to prove your own point wrong with your own point, bleh i hope you get the point |
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| LOvEDoM says: me hate he, me re raise | Last edit: 28/03/2008 06:16 |
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ggplz   United Kingdom. Mar 28 2008 06:17. Posts 10431 | | |
another epic poll from floofy |
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| tripletii: why dont you LOL my fucking asshole | |
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Fox   . Mar 28 2008 06:17. Posts 900 | | | |
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Pokemyface   Australia. Mar 28 2008 06:19. Posts 494 | | |
It's just a matter of morals...
I personally would tell a person if i could see their cards, as this would make me uncomfortable.
Sure its like refusing free money, but its kinda like if you saw a wallet somewhere, some ppl would take the money and chuck the wallet, and some would actually turn it in. |
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Floofy   Canada. Mar 28 2008 06:22. Posts 6597 | | |
im also curious what the real rule is. if this is perfectly legal then, in theory, some people are probably attempting to look at your cards, and you might do a mistake from time to time. therefore if you don't do it yourself, you are getting fucked |
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| i masturbate SO much. masturbating fucking ROCKS and im SO GOOD at it jesus christ i should do it right now but frinkx is standing RIGHT next to me - Myth | |
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Rekrul   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:28. Posts 2486 | | |
dont do a mistake floofy
hide your cards well and pretend like u have the nuts every hand, for now its ur only shot |
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| LOvEDoM says: me hate he, me re raise | |
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kimseongchan   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:35. Posts 1757 | | |
I think I would look at the player's cards in the most obvious way possible until he/she got the point (like leaning over obvious). If they were still stupid enough to not do anything about it then they deserve to lose. |
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Rekrul   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:35. Posts 2486 | | |
then id ask u if u were funny and before u could answer ur skull would be stomped |
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| LOvEDoM says: me hate he, me re raise | |
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True   Finland. Mar 28 2008 06:41. Posts 265 | | |
You make a mistake at a poker table, you (usually, stupid bad beats ;() lose money. I'd be exploiting this. |
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| I am a NL25 player so take my advice/comments in that perspective | |
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Rekrul   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:43. Posts 2486 | | |
i love live poker
half the players at the table are always nit losers who play every day and think they are cool and know everything
meanwhile i straddle and bomb the pot every hand ever street and tell them they are nit faggots and take all the money while being gracious, courteous, and pleasant to the fishes
ez game |
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| LOvEDoM says: me hate he, me re raise | |
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Rekrul   United States. Mar 28 2008 06:58. Posts 2486 | | |
we do play poker to make money
but life is not all about that
i still am confused as to why cocktail waitresses freak the fuck out when i tip them 5$ after they give me a water...cant you see im stuck 10k what the fuck does 5$ more matter if i can make one person happy i will |
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| LOvEDoM says: me hate he, me re raise | |
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znb   Hungary. Mar 28 2008 07:11. Posts 181 | | |
| | On March 28 2008 06:58 Rekrul wrote:
we do play poker to make money
but life is not all about that
i still am confused as to why cocktail waitresses freak the fuck out when i tip them 5$ after they give me a water...cant you see im stuck 10k what the fuck does 5$ more matter if i can make one person happy i will |
gentleman... but there is no friendship in poker |
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| I usually play NL1000, but accidentally misclicked. | |
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Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Mar 28 2008 07:13. Posts 482 | | |
Well it might be legal but it still aint ethical.I mean wtf dont telll me this BS "no feelings/ethics etc etc BS in poker".You should be thinking sober and shouldnt be that egoistic if u wanna be good at something u gotta own people at their best play.I dont see how are u beating someone at their best while u r watching their hole cards.Think about it its just like POTRIPPER in UB ?You r not playing correctly nor thinking correctly its just like stealing money from someone.Dont even try to prove me wrong.Yes the concept of the game is to get as much as money possible from ur opponents but that doesnt mean that u must break all moral and ethical barriers to do so.Seriously i have a lot of respect for u myth but i just cant agree with u on this and i think u should really think about this.
@znb that doesnt mean that he s ur friend wtf.You shouldnt be telling him that u can see his hole cards just for him but for urself also. |
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| | Last edit: 28/03/2008 07:14 |
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I'm with Rek on this one.
I actually think if you don't tell them you're pretty pathetic. You have no obligation to tell them after the first time that session because then they're just being negligent but I dislike people who take advantage of stuff like this. You're playing poker. You aren't supposed to see their cards. He's obviously not trying to show them to you and is making an honest mistake in doing so. He's not going to know he's doing it unless somebody tells him. This isn't him misplaying top pair or overplaying a hand. This is him tilting his fucking cards the wrong way. Play poker. It's not about every edge, every win, every dollar. There is room for ethics and integrity in this game. In life too.
To be honest, my respect level for Myth just went way down.  |
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| | Last edit: 28/03/2008 07:34 |
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Golden Ghost   Netherlands. Mar 28 2008 07:57. Posts 234 | | |
I would tell them for sure.
And yes it matters if they are regulars or not.
Regulars should know how to look at their cards so screw them. |
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| But we at Liquidpoker don’t care about that. Our players are nutjobs, maniacs, psychics, and unstoppable beasts at the poker tables, crushing the highest limits around -[vital]Myth | |
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BadGoNe   France. Mar 28 2008 08:00. Posts 276 | | |
I def tell the guy if I can see his hole cards...
Other question: it happened to me about 1 month ago during a cash game that we went to river showdown, 3ways.
I had AQ on a board AQT6K.
The players were pretty loose so they all check/call me till river and i obv checked down after the 2 others checked the river with that board.
Then that thing happened: The first guy mucked and then the 2nd guy said "straight" but did not flip the cards over.
But I still flipped my cards after him, showing the 2 pairs even though I thought the other guy had the straight.
And the guy that claimed to have the straight actually said that he did not have the straight after I flipped my 2 pairs. So i had the winning hand.
The question I was wondering is: if for example, I would have mucked my hand after the guy claimed to have a straight. and it happens that after I muck he flips over his hand and that he doesnt have the straight. Can I claim the pot?
I know it is a bit dumb to ask because obv if he claims to have a certain hand, we expect him to show first then muck. But it was in the flow of the game and then when he said "straight" on that board, nobody expected him to lie. |
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| | Last edit: 28/03/2008 08:06 |
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KeanuReaver   United States. Mar 28 2008 08:20. Posts 1299 | | |
yeah i'd let him know
if he didn't fix it then i'd consciously avoid looking at his cards
i would explain why but basically i agree with rek and freak
i'll just add it's strictly a moral choice for me, so in that sense i have no problem with myth's attitude, just different morals. |
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Nazgul   Netherlands. Mar 28 2008 08:22. Posts 4303 | | |
it wouldnt occur to me to keep this to myself |
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| You almost twin-caracked his AK - JonnyCosmo | |
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BigRed0000   United States. Mar 28 2008 08:24. Posts 2003 | | |
After having met rekrul, his posts are way funnier for some reason. Dan likes to have a good time at the table, event hat old korean dude liked you, but you scared him away ha. |
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Baal   . Mar 28 2008 08:58. Posts 15580 | | |
it would depend if i like or dislike the person, or if it provokes me sympathy or not. |
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| DCal Zone: DIE YOU LIQUID POKER CLOWNS | |
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sawseech   Canada. Mar 28 2008 09:32. Posts 1457 | | | |
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Floofy   Canada. Mar 28 2008 09:35. Posts 6597 | | |
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