Ethics: Exposed Cards

i would look and would not tell them unless it was a friend who i cared more about his friendship than the money i could win.

if it was a homegame or a random person im looking all day. part of the game is covering your cards, if he fails to do so thats his fucking problem im gonna make him WEAR IT

i actually change my mind on this

if someone is stupid enough to not cover their cards THEY ARENT MY FRIEND AND THEY ARE GOING DOWN. NO FRIEND OF MINE IS THIS DUMB.


now if something like i got more money than i deserved in a pot came up i would 100% tell the person he gave me too much and gave him what he was owed. i would never cheat anyone in a manner like that, but if someone doesnt cover their cards, i think they are fair game to get taken to value town

On March 28 2008 10:52 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: Show nested quote + On March 28 2008 09:35 lebowski wrote:   On March 28 2008 08:58 Baal wrote: it would depend if i like or dislike the person, or if it provokes me sympathy or not. why would anyone be kind to an asshole Because somebody else's lack of good character doesn't give you an excuse to be similar.

I don't like yelling at ppl but I'd definately yell at someone who's busting my balls
Same thing with having sex with his gf ,etc

There is no golden rule or source from which ethical rules spring;well,ok,unless you're a religious person
That's the reason I can justify treating two different ppl with different philosophy and behavioural patterns
You obviously believe that seeing another person's cards is so "bad" that it should be done to noone.
Well,that's fine,everyone should build his own rules anyway,I just can't see a good reason to think like that myself vs assholes.

Hell,I'd even say to someone that I have a huge tell on him if I liked him.
Oh and obv taking advantage of the mentally handicapped is bad for the species.(ppl playing drunk)

i dunno this a close but me personally my first reaction is to kindly tell the dude that he's being a fucking moron.

shit i've had people tell me that i wasn't covering my hold cards while looking (i'm fucked out out of my mind obv)

I think it's good form to do so. I like to keep the game classy and not a bunch of douches looking for every little edge possible.

god i hate those type of people.

On March 28 2008 06:06 Rekrul wrote: you fucking faggot nits trying to get every edge you can, i will fucking kill you, if i ever see one of you able to see someones cards next to u and u dont say a word i will get up and smack your fucking face then step on your fucking skull

he can do it... he's like almost 7 feet high it's insane...

I would pay $1000 to watch rek at a table if this is how he acts, it's fantastic.

On March 28 2008 16:59 Feiticeira wrote: I would pay $1000 to watch rek at a table if this is how he acts, it's fantastic.

yeah? he would pay you $10k so that he could step on your skull...

On March 28 2008 08:00 BadGoNe wrote: I def tell the guy if I can see his hole cards... Other question: it happened to me about 1 month ago during a cash game that we went to river showdown, 3ways. I had AQ on a board AQT6K. The players were pretty loose so they all check/call me till river and i obv checked down after the 2 others checked the river with that board. Then that thing happened: The first guy mucked and then the 2nd guy said "straight" but did not flip the cards over. But I still flipped my cards after him, showing the 2 pairs even though I thought the other guy had the straight. And the guy that claimed to have the straight actually said that he did not have the straight after I flipped my 2 pairs. So i had the winning hand. The question I was wondering is: if for example, I would have mucked my hand after the guy claimed to have a straight. and it happens that after I muck he flips over his hand and that he doesnt have the straight. Can I claim the pot? I know it is a bit dumb to ask because obv if he claims to have a certain hand, we expect him to show first then muck. But it was in the flow of the game and then when he said "straight" on that board, nobody expected him to lie.

If you muck before he shows his "straight" he wins the pot period, just always ask to see the winning hand and don't be in a rush to muck. Guess it depends on the type of game and how friendly it is but as far as i know rules stipulate (in the live game here at the casino) that he wins if everyone else/you mucks.

On topic: I don't think I'd "lose respect" for anyone who was taking advantage of being able to see someone's hole cards, I wouldn't do it and would warn the guy at least once but I don't think assuming that everyone is going to have the same stance about it is good either.
You could also warn someone the person if you see someone else using it to their advantage..
And if they do think differently to you then that one thing doesn't make them a "faggot" or make them eligible for "skull stomping" lol.

On March 28 2008 15:06 harryhood wrote: Show nested quote + On March 28 2008 06:58 Rekrul wrote: we do play poker to make money but life is not all about that i still am confused as to why cocktail waitresses freak the fuck out when i tip them 5$ after they give me a water...cant you see im stuck 10k what the fuck does 5$ more matter if i can make one person happy i will lol @ ordering water Tell them once so they hear you, not half assed. If they keep doing it glance when you glance. There's more to worry about at the table than peepin out 2 hole cards. The advantage you get isn't MONUMENTAL.

"OH HAI WELCOME TO MYTHBUSTERS"

-POTRIPPER

1. I'm sure theres plenty of macho douche-captains who get pissed and threaten people when losing legit, should we all just stop playing live poker because of that?

2. Lets say you are playing in a cash game which has a minimum buy-in of five million dollars. You can see the hole cards of the guy to your right who is a complete spew-monkey. This dude is also a billionaire who just plays in this game for kicks. Add to this the absolute guarantee that you would not get caught and your reputation is guaranteed to be safe. There is not a single player on this site who wouldn't try and set themselves up for the rest of their life in this situation. Your "ethical" concerns go right out the window now don't they?

im only crazy when im drunk at the table, in which case im a righteous psychopath

On March 28 2008 15:25 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On March 28 2008 10:52 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote:   On March 28 2008 09:35 lebowski wrote:   On March 28 2008 08:58 Baal wrote: it would depend if i like or dislike the person, or if it provokes me sympathy or not. why would anyone be kind to an asshole Because somebody else's lack of good character doesn't give you an excuse to be similar. I don't like yelling at ppl but I'd definately yell at someone who's busting my balls Same thing with having sex with his gf ,etc There is no golden rule or source from which ethical rules spring;well,ok,unless you're a religious person That's the reason I can justify treating two different ppl with different philosophy and behavioural patterns You obviously believe that seeing another person's cards is so "bad" that it should be done to noone. Well,that's fine,everyone should build his own rules anyway,I just can't see a good reason to think like that myself vs assholes. Hell,I'd even say to someone that I have a huge tell on him if I liked him. Oh and obv taking advantage of the mentally handicapped is bad for the species.(ppl playing drunk)

I obviously believe what?

I would want to be told if I was accidentally showing my cards to somebody. I do the same for others. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with good or bad.

Nobody said anything about not treating them differently. I said somebody being an asshole doesn't give you justification in being an asshole. It accomplishes nothing but a pissing contest. You don't need to be nice to them or give them respect. You treat them like they are an asshole. This can be done without being an asshole yourself.

Pretty much everything I "obviously" believe is this simplistic. I wouldn't waste much energy into looking much deeper than the words I'm saying.

if i was showing my cards then i deserve to lose. concealing your cards while keeping a poker face and watching other players is part of the game and if you cant handle it then you deserve whats coming


plus you have to protect yourself. you cant assume the guy would tell you (and if you KNOW the guy would tell you and you are that friendly with him then i suppose an argument can be made for telling a friend)

I didn't say I'd assume he would tell me. That doesn't matter to me. It's not about them. It's about me and what I would want to have done if I was in that situation. I could care less if people had the same courtesy as I do. I'm not going to lower myself because they are low.

Not to say that I would show my cards very often because I'm careful about that sort of thing. It's still possible, assuming an awkwardly set up table or something.

I'm just saying that IF *I* ever was in a situation where I was unknowingly showing somebody my hole cards, for whatever reason, I'd like to be told.

Granted, if they continued to be negligent after I made the effort, then I've done what I can.

as long as you are consistent with your beliefs

if i would feel hurt by someone not telling me then i have no right to say i wouldnt ever tell someone (well i have that right but im very open to criticism about it)

I don't get it.When you tell someone that you can see his holecards you are being polite.Now why would not being polite to someone I dislike make me an asshole too ? The guy obv makes a huge mistake that he's not supposed to and if I don't help him understand it despite hating his guts I'm suddenly unethical? No way.I'm not cheating him in any way by not treating his stupidity nicely.
I could understand easier an argument concerning my pride vs winning someone I hate in such a manner but this would surely have nothing to do with me doing something wrong.

It has nothing to do with being polite, read my posts.

It would bother me if a FRIEND didnt tell me im exposing my cards, i wouldnt not expect or get mad if somebody could see my cards if i were foolish enough to expose them (not by some flaw of the table cards or anything).

i agree with daut the most in this topic
except i certainly would tell my friends if they exposed their cards

On March 28 2008 19:36 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: It has nothing to do with being polite, read my posts.

nothing in your posts refers to this.
all you say about it is how you would do what you would want others to do to you
and generalise about being an auto-asshole if you don't mention to anyone that you see his cards,or how low such an act is.

The first one is a good rule of thumb in general,but surely you can't expect anyone disliking you to treat you in such a manner, so it has nothing to do with the way you evaluate the act itself. So what is the basis of your negative evaluation for such an act towards another player?
I don't know,so I'm refering to my own reasoning to sort this out;When we reveal to our villain that we see his holecards we do it to create a firm relationship of trust,a gentlemens' game.Politeness leads to a sense of mutual understanding that the game is set fairly and the winner will be determined by skills and luck,pretty much as it serves social cohesion in everyday life situations.

When no intention of politeness or the reasons that induce it is evident,when we have a real asshole sitting next to us,name one good reason that makes the act of not pointing out his stupid mistake to him unethical. It's not like you are maphacking in a bw game btw, because you aren't supposed to maphack,whereas you're supposed to hide your holdings in poker.

I think it really comes down to personal taste vs assholes.

Some want their assholes busto the hard way and some others don't.

edit:this is getting long and I'm getting sleepy