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Stop loss issue, vote.

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Minsk   United States. Feb 23 2015 01:09. Posts 1558

 Last edit: 23/02/2015 01:10

Bejamin1   Canada. Feb 23 2015 02:19. Posts 7042


  On February 22 2015 22:52 DaEm0niCuS wrote:
most of it was lost at 2/4



Most... so some was even higher than that or lower?

However, in general I think the agreement is clear. If you lose more than 5k you're at that point losing on your own dime. I don't know why they'd expect you to cover loses beyond that, doesn't make sense and you didn't ever explicitly agree to doing so.

I do question why an agreement for 2/4 would only be 5K though. Seems like a very small prone to variance swingy amount. Unless you're targetting a specific whale on a deep table or something.

Sorry dude he Jason Bourned me. -Johnny Drama 

AndrewSong    United States. Feb 23 2015 03:49. Posts 2355


  On February 23 2015 01:19 Bejamin1 wrote:
Show nested quote +



Most... so some was even higher than that or lower?

However, in general I think the agreement is clear. If you lose more than 5k you're at that point losing on your own dime. I don't know why they'd expect you to cover loses beyond that, doesn't make sense and you didn't ever explicitly agree to doing so.

I do question why an agreement for 2/4 would only be 5K though. Seems like a very small prone to variance swingy amount. Unless you're targetting a specific whale on a deep table or something.


-12.5 buyin is extremely generous. 5buyin stoploss is pretty standard for midstakes backing


Bejamin1   Canada. Feb 23 2015 05:30. Posts 7042

Andrew I guess ya learn something new every day! I guess it makes sense if it's like a one day profit-sharing agreement. I think my brain has been warped by PLO to think 12.5 buy-ins is the equivalent hold'em swing of like... 3 haha.

Sorry dude he Jason Bourned me. -Johnny Drama 

ClouD87   Italy. Feb 23 2015 12:58. Posts 524


  On February 23 2015 02:49 AndrewSong wrote:
Show nested quote +



-12.5 buyin is extremely generous. 5buyin stoploss is pretty standard for midstakes backing


I don't understand this? You could easily swing 30 BI while playing really well.


DaEm0niCuS   United States. Feb 23 2015 15:11. Posts 3292

If you swing 30 bi while playing really well, you're in the wrong games or you're not actually playing that well.


ClouD87   Italy. Feb 23 2015 15:14. Posts 524


  On February 23 2015 14:11 DaEm0niCuS wrote:
If you swing 30 bi while playing really well, you're in the wrong games or you're not actually playing that well.


I mainly play zoom and huge downswings are frequent to almost everyone, perhaps normal tables or live poker are much different than that?


devon06atX   Canada. Feb 23 2015 18:28. Posts 5458

Yeah, I agree with Daemon. Although I've never had a large database of zoom - but if you lose 30 buyins at nlhe 6max, you're probably playing semi-tilted and not even realising it.

I'm surprised at the amount of ppl that play zoom only. Although you sometimes see people who spew 2-3 buyins in a hand for no reason at all. Perhaps I should add a couple zoom tables into the usual mix.


traxamillion   United States. Feb 23 2015 19:26. Posts 10468

LOL u guys are delusional if you think 5 even 10 buyin swings aren't completely standard in online shorthanded games; maybe if you are a full ring nit it isn't.

I still can get behind a 5 buyin stop loss if it helps you chill for a second and play better later. Really no point to a stoploss beyond that though.

how long do you have to stop after hitting the stoploss?

I think there is grey area here but In the OPs case its pretty clear he went a little overboard if he blew through a 5k stoploss at 2/4 (was it deep ante, or just reg 6m) all the way up to almost 30 buyins. Despite my first sentence that is a ton for that game and he was almost surely spewing.


TimDawg    United States. Feb 23 2015 21:48. Posts 10197


  On February 23 2015 14:11 DaEm0niCuS wrote:
If you swing 30 bi while playing really well, you're in the wrong games or you're not actually playing that well.

not live - unless there are extreme circumstances

Like a huge fish coming into the game buying in uber deep and straddling 2-5x the BB a lot

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

TimDawg    United States. Feb 23 2015 22:00. Posts 10197

I mean the main problem is that the backer/investor specifically told the stakee that he has a 5k stop loss and the stakee basically ignored this agreement and also it seems failed to communicate to the investor that he was continuing to play while already at the agreed stop loss.

He should've called and said something like, "look man, I'm stuck right at the stoploss but this game is just really soft and I'm going to keep playing - do you want 50% more of the rest of my action or are you done?"

So yeah, this seems like a guy that I would not trust enough to follow an agreement nor communicate well enough to invest in

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

AndrewSong    United States. Feb 23 2015 22:09. Posts 2355

If you care about your bottom line as a backer, it's important to understand anyone you back is coming with a problem. Constant monitoring will solve most of these if skill isn't one of them. Five buyin stop loss or even a stricter rule in the start is necessary to implement because it promotes closer communication with room for you to help. If you are allowing 10+ buyin stoploss for 400NL+, that's a recipe for disaster especially in games with such small skill gap. I can assure you someone who needs backing will not be a crusher to start.


NMcNasty    United States. Feb 23 2015 23:37. Posts 2039


  On February 23 2015 21:09 AndrewSong wrote:
If you care about your bottom line as a backer, it's important to understand anyone you back is coming with a problem. Constant monitoring will solve most of these if skill isn't one of them. Five buyin stop loss or even a stricter rule in the start is necessary to implement because it promotes closer communication with room for you to help. If you are allowing 10+ buyin stoploss for 400NL+, that's a recipe for disaster especially in games with such small skill gap. I can assure you someone who needs backing will not be a crusher to start.



All the above makes sense, but I think its just more reason its on the backer to make the staking arrangements explicitly clear. I mean a 2k loss at 400NL (online) is 100% bound to happen.


TimDawg    United States. Feb 24 2015 00:32. Posts 10197


  On February 23 2015 22:37 NMcNasty wrote:
Show nested quote +



All the above makes sense, but I think its just more reason its on the backer to make the staking arrangements explicitly clear. I mean a 2k loss at 400NL (online) is 100% bound to happen.
and I assumed the OP was talking about a live stake

online this is a little bit different and trickier but what I posted earlier still holds true I think

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinballLast edit: 24/02/2015 00:32

AndrewSong    United States. Feb 24 2015 01:07. Posts 2355

if it's one time live staking, title says it all. stop loss = STOP


Baalim   Mexico. Feb 24 2015 05:03. Posts 34246

why is this thread so fucking long seriously, when somebody breaks the term of the stake he should pay

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

NMcNasty    United States. Feb 24 2015 06:13. Posts 2039


  On February 24 2015 00:07 AndrewSong wrote:
if it's one time live staking, title says it all. stop loss = STOP



Agreed, I just didn't think it was since its 2/4 (not 2/5) and at least an 11k stake.


FrinkX   United States. Feb 24 2015 06:46. Posts 7561


  On February 24 2015 04:03 Baalim wrote:
why is this thread so fucking long seriously, when somebody breaks the term of the stake he should pay

bitch on a pension suck my dong 

traxamillion   United States. Feb 24 2015 20:00. Posts 10468


  On February 24 2015 00:07 AndrewSong wrote:
if it's one time live staking, title says it all. stop loss = STOP



If it is a one time live stake this is obvious. Backer has little chance of getting unstuck in one session but a dam good chance to lose more.

If the stakee is on a long term deal and goes into makeup blowing the stop loss is not as bad because at least the stakee wil be on the hook for the money afterwards


traxamillion   United States. Feb 24 2015 20:01. Posts 10468

Can't say everyone getting stakes has problems because while true for most even players like LivB take incredibly favorable stakes to grind stress free at the top.


 
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