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Hey everyone,
I've recently come back to poker (played some microstakes a few years ago and have read up on a lot of theory) but there are some instances where I'm having trouble deciding whether or not to shove all-in, especially when it comes to getting a two-pair on a flush draw as is seen in the attachment below. In that particular game, a really fishy player (36/5) with a 40ish BB stack open-raised from UTG, and a TAG called him from LP. I was BB so I called with KTs as a speculative play (the TAG had 100BB stack). When the TAG 3bet the c-bet I figured he was on top pair with a high kicker, probably with flush draw (perhaps also reacting to the aggressive postflop history of the fish). At that point I decided to shove, but perhaps I should have just called since the 3bet was only 10BB -- however I wanted to make sure that he was paying for trying to make his flush. According to the heads up odds my hand was still +EV but perhaps I should have been less hasty to go all in?
Thanks in advance for any feedback. It feels great to be playing and learning again
Submitted by : Erik.TheRed
PokerStars Hand #125777417445: Holdem No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2014/11/26 3:51:33 CET [2014/11/25 21:51:33 ET]
Table Helene II 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Thief2002 ($3.47 in chips)
Seat 2: DeanBundy ($2.06 in chips)
Seat 3: 3,CARAS ($1.97 in chips)
Seat 4: DkN_mTr ($1.94 in chips)
Seat 5: Ashenver ($2.12 in chips)
Seat 6: Hero ($4.46 in chips)
Seat 7: esteban.vs19 ($0.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Draw Button ($1.72 in chips)
Seat 9: Meshkey ($1.80 in chips)
Ashenver: posts small blind $0.01
Hero: posts big blind $0.02
Holecards(Odds) Dealt to Hero
esteban.vs19: raises $0.06 to $0.08
Draw Button: folds
Meshkey: folds
Thief2002: folds
DeanBundy: calls $0.08
3,CARAS: folds
DkN_mTr: folds
Ashenver: folds
Hero: calls $0.06
Flop(Odds) (Pot : $0.25)
Hero: checks
esteban.vs19: bets $0.08
DeanBundy: raises $0.12 to $0.20
Hero: raises $4.18 to $4.38 and is all-in
esteban.vs19: folds
DeanBundy: calls $1.78 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($2.40) returned to Hero
Turn(Odds) (Pot : $4.29)
River (Pot : $4.29)
Showdown Hero: shows (two pair, Kings and Tens)
DeanBundy: shows (two pair, Aces and Queens)
DeanBundy collected $4.14 from pot
Summary Total pot $4.29 | Rake $0.15
Board
Seat 1: Thief2002 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: DeanBundy showed and won ($4.14) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 3: 3,CARAS folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: DkN_mTr (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: Ashenver (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Hero (big blind) showed and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 7: esteban.vs19 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Draw Button folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 9: Meshkey folded before Flop (didnt bet)
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See you space cowboy | Last edit: 25/11/2014 22:20 |
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Trav94   Canada. Nov 25 2014 23:45. Posts 1785 | | |
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fira   United States. Nov 26 2014 21:47. Posts 6345 | | |
would not fold pre... offsuit sure, suited too good? maybe a squeeze but im not sure, i dont play much FR
pretty tough hand tbh... i dont really like the overbet jam on flop. i think a decent sized raise ($0.6~) would be okay. coldcalling would be a bit weird but the bet and raise are so small that it's prob okay, tho maybe hard to balance |
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| Last edit: 26/11/2014 21:48 |
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Trav94   Canada. Nov 27 2014 17:57. Posts 1785 | | |
If he doesn't know how to play the hand oop postflop... then why bother calling? + it's fullring and utg raised? |
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devon06atX   Canada. Nov 29 2014 16:46. Posts 5458 | | |
I fold this pre at 6m, let alone full ring.
On flop you're hoping to be against aq/aj (w/o a flush draw, as you can see you're already behind his tpgk + flush draw).
Basically, at *best*, you're hoping to be a 60-40 favourite. It's more likely you're crushed.
Fold pre. As played, fold to deanbundy's raise. |
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soberstone   United States. Nov 30 2014 01:02. Posts 2662 | | |
People more exp saying fold pre but I would think if you have the discipline and are very good it is probably +ev to call pre and play for the nuts / super nitty post, but I'd venture it's really marginal and you'd have to be able to play close to perfectly optimally post, which I know I wouldn't be able to necessarily do, so for the average player at this stake, it's probably a clear fold pre.
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traxamillion   United States. Dec 02 2014 01:03. Posts 10468 | | |
call pre call flop, now play turn |
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traxamillion   United States. Dec 02 2014 01:05. Posts 10468 | | |
folding pre is alright though, if i was short rolled or taking a 1 bi shot I could dump it pre if no fish in the hand |
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Nitewin   United States. Dec 02 2014 12:34. Posts 1539 | | |
Yeah I think I call flop and not jam. Jamming you're hoping. Calling you're kinda hoping too. |
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!MeaL!   United States. Dec 16 2014 20:12. Posts 100 | | |
I would call flop, raise turn if get reraise I might fold. But shove you ain't getting information plus you only getting call by big hands that probably have you beat |
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!MeaL!   United States. Dec 16 2014 20:14. Posts 100 | | |
By the way folding preflop those hands on 2nl? That's really nitty in my opinion even if and if it's utg. People ranges in those games are so bad that I don't mind the call at all. |
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| Last edit: 16/12/2014 20:21 |
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Baalim   Mexico. Dec 26 2014 14:26. Posts 34246 | | |
| On November 29 2014 15:46 devon06atX wrote:
I fold this pre at 6m, let alone full ring.
On flop you're hoping to be against aq/aj (w/o a flush draw, as you can see you're already behind his tpgk + flush draw).
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Folding this pf at 6max is beyond terrible lol |
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Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online | |
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Jelle   Belgium. Dec 28 2014 01:20. Posts 3476 | | |
| On December 16 2014 19:14 !MeaL! wrote:
By the way folding preflop those hands on 2nl? That's really nitty in my opinion even if and if it's utg. People ranges in those games are so bad that I don't mind the call at all. |
agree but i would fold on the flop
shoving seems very bad to me, I think we were lucky to get HU with 40% ev
calling the flop also seems very bad to me... your equity in the pot right now might not be that far behind but I don't really understand what you're hoping will happen, that a J comes off and you lose less against AT and congratulate yourself? That the 2nl player is going to say "wow he cold called a bet and a raise, I'll c/f now"?
what kind of hands do you guys think deanbundy routinely has (in addition to all of the ones that beat u) that will justify continuing here? 86s hi? JT? A2? |
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YoMeR   United States. Jan 17 2015 05:29. Posts 12435 | | |
super standard fold in FR vs a standard FR utg raise. |
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Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jan 19 2015 05:30. Posts 9634 | | |
| On December 26 2014 13:26 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2014 15:46 devon06atX wrote:
I fold this pre at 6m, let alone full ring.
On flop you're hoping to be against aq/aj (w/o a flush draw, as you can see you're already behind his tpgk + flush draw).
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Folding this pf at 6max is beyond terrible lol
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Eeeh depending on the utg, you are used to playing guys that play a bit wider on the utg probably and you re comfortable with your post flop game as you re aware of what hands you have on particular boards & particular actions.
It wouldn't be bad considering Hero obviously sucks post flop ( no offense, most of us do too ).
Soo theoretically sure, you re right, practically he shouldn't do it before he s aware of why he s doing it. He s slightly good vs even tight ranges, but if he stacks off on this flop he'd end up spewing more |
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| Last edit: 19/01/2015 05:35 |
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4TM   United States. Feb 19 2015 23:33. Posts 712 | | |
| On January 19 2015 04:30 Spitfiree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2014 13:26 Baalim wrote:
| On November 29 2014 15:46 devon06atX wrote:
I fold this pre at 6m, let alone full ring.
On flop you're hoping to be against aq/aj (w/o a flush draw, as you can see you're already behind his tpgk + flush draw).
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Folding this pf at 6max is beyond terrible lol
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Eeeh depending on the utg, you are used to playing guys that play a bit wider on the utg probably and you re comfortable with your post flop game as you re aware of what hands you have on particular boards & particular actions.
It wouldn't be bad considering Hero obviously sucks post flop ( no offense, most of us do too ).
Soo theoretically sure, you re right, practically he shouldn't do it before he s aware of why he s doing it. He s slightly good vs even tight ranges, but if he stacks off on this flop he'd end up spewing more |
Folding pre is a mistake. If you avoid +EV spots because you aren't comfortable playing postflop why are you even playing the game?
edit: Nevermind, I cant read and thought this was 6m.... |
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| Last edit: 21/02/2015 03:23 |
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