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[2NL] Shoving with two-pair

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Erik.TheRed   Sweden. Nov 25 2014 22:18. Posts 1

Hey everyone,

I've recently come back to poker (played some microstakes a few years ago and have read up on a lot of theory) but there are some instances where I'm having trouble deciding whether or not to shove all-in, especially when it comes to getting a two-pair on a flush draw as is seen in the attachment below. In that particular game, a really fishy player (36/5) with a 40ish BB stack open-raised from UTG, and a TAG called him from LP. I was BB so I called with KTs as a speculative play (the TAG had 100BB stack). When the TAG 3bet the c-bet I figured he was on top pair with a high kicker, probably with flush draw (perhaps also reacting to the aggressive postflop history of the fish). At that point I decided to shove, but perhaps I should have just called since the 3bet was only 10BB -- however I wanted to make sure that he was paying for trying to make his flush. According to the heads up odds my hand was still +EV but perhaps I should have been less hasty to go all in?

Thanks in advance for any feedback. It feels great to be playing and learning again



Submitted by : Erik.TheRed

PokerStars Hand #125777417445: Holdem No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2014/11/26 3:51:33 CET [2014/11/25 21:51:33 ET]
Table Helene II 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Thief2002 ($3.47 in chips)
Seat 2: DeanBundy ($2.06 in chips)
Seat 3: 3,CARAS ($1.97 in chips)
Seat 4: DkN_mTr ($1.94 in chips)
Seat 5: Ashenver ($2.12 in chips)
Seat 6: Hero ($4.46 in chips)
Seat 7: esteban.vs19 ($0.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Draw Button ($1.72 in chips)
Seat 9: Meshkey ($1.80 in chips)
Ashenver: posts small blind $0.01
Hero: posts big blind $0.02

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero TsKs
esteban.vs19: raises $0.06 to $0.08
Draw Button: folds
Meshkey: folds
Thief2002: folds
DeanBundy: calls $0.08
3,CARAS: folds
DkN_mTr: folds
Ashenver: folds
Hero: calls $0.06

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $0.25)

   TcKcAh
Hero: checks
esteban.vs19: bets $0.08
DeanBundy: raises $0.12 to $0.20
Hero: raises $4.18 to $4.38 and is all-in
esteban.vs19: folds
DeanBundy: calls $1.78 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($2.40) returned to Hero

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $4.29)

   TcKcAh8s

River (Pot : $4.29)

   TcKcAh8sQd

Showdown
Hero: shows TsKs (two pair, Kings and Tens)
DeanBundy: shows QcAc (two pair, Aces and Queens)
DeanBundy collected $4.14 from pot

Summary
Total pot $4.29 | Rake $0.15
Board  TcKcAh8sQd
Seat 1: Thief2002 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: DeanBundy showed QcAc and won ($4.14) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 3: 3,CARAS folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: DkN_mTr (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: Ashenver (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Hero (big blind) showed TsKs and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 7: esteban.vs19 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Draw Button folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 9: Meshkey folded before Flop (didnt bet)

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See you space cowboyLast edit: 25/11/2014 22:20

Trav94   Canada. Nov 25 2014 23:45. Posts 1785

fold preflop


fira   United States. Nov 26 2014 21:47. Posts 6345

would not fold pre... offsuit sure, suited too good? maybe a squeeze but im not sure, i dont play much FR

pretty tough hand tbh... i dont really like the overbet jam on flop. i think a decent sized raise ($0.6~) would be okay. coldcalling would be a bit weird but the bet and raise are so small that it's prob okay, tho maybe hard to balance

 Last edit: 26/11/2014 21:48

Trav94   Canada. Nov 27 2014 17:57. Posts 1785

If he doesn't know how to play the hand oop postflop... then why bother calling? + it's fullring and utg raised?


devon06atX   Canada. Nov 29 2014 16:46. Posts 5458

I fold this pre at 6m, let alone full ring.

On flop you're hoping to be against aq/aj (w/o a flush draw, as you can see you're already behind his tpgk + flush draw).

Basically, at *best*, you're hoping to be a 60-40 favourite. It's more likely you're crushed.

Fold pre. As played, fold to deanbundy's raise.


soberstone   United States. Nov 30 2014 01:02. Posts 2662

People more exp saying fold pre but I would think if you have the discipline and are very good it is probably +ev to call pre and play for the nuts / super nitty post, but I'd venture it's really marginal and you'd have to be able to play close to perfectly optimally post, which I know I wouldn't be able to necessarily do, so for the average player at this stake, it's probably a clear fold pre.


traxamillion   United States. Dec 02 2014 01:03. Posts 10468

call pre call flop, now play turn


traxamillion   United States. Dec 02 2014 01:05. Posts 10468

folding pre is alright though, if i was short rolled or taking a 1 bi shot I could dump it pre if no fish in the hand


Nitewin   United States. Dec 02 2014 12:34. Posts 1539

Yeah I think I call flop and not jam. Jamming you're hoping. Calling you're kinda hoping too.


!MeaL!   United States. Dec 16 2014 20:12. Posts 100

I would call flop, raise turn if get reraise I might fold. But shove you ain't getting information plus you only getting call by big hands that probably have you beat


!MeaL!   United States. Dec 16 2014 20:14. Posts 100

By the way folding preflop those hands on 2nl? That's really nitty in my opinion even if and if it's utg. People ranges in those games are so bad that I don't mind the call at all.

 Last edit: 16/12/2014 20:21

Baalim   Mexico. Dec 26 2014 14:26. Posts 34246


  On November 29 2014 15:46 devon06atX wrote:
I fold this pre at 6m, let alone full ring.

On flop you're hoping to be against aq/aj (w/o a flush draw, as you can see you're already behind his tpgk + flush draw).



Folding this pf at 6max is beyond terrible lol

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Jelle   Belgium. Dec 28 2014 01:20. Posts 3476


  On December 16 2014 19:14 !MeaL! wrote:
By the way folding preflop those hands on 2nl? That's really nitty in my opinion even if and if it's utg. People ranges in those games are so bad that I don't mind the call at all.



agree but i would fold on the flop

shoving seems very bad to me, I think we were lucky to get HU with 40% ev

calling the flop also seems very bad to me... your equity in the pot right now might not be that far behind but I don't really understand what you're hoping will happen, that a J comes off and you lose less against AT and congratulate yourself? That the 2nl player is going to say "wow he cold called a bet and a raise, I'll c/f now"?

what kind of hands do you guys think deanbundy routinely has (in addition to all of the ones that beat u) that will justify continuing here? 86s hi? JT? A2?

GroT 

YoMeR   United States. Jan 17 2015 05:29. Posts 12435

super standard fold in FR vs a standard FR utg raise.

eZ Life. 

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jan 19 2015 05:30. Posts 9634


  On December 26 2014 13:26 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



Folding this pf at 6max is beyond terrible lol


Eeeh depending on the utg, you are used to playing guys that play a bit wider on the utg probably and you re comfortable with your post flop game as you re aware of what hands you have on particular boards & particular actions.
It wouldn't be bad considering Hero obviously sucks post flop ( no offense, most of us do too ).
Soo theoretically sure, you re right, practically he shouldn't do it before he s aware of why he s doing it. He s slightly good vs even tight ranges, but if he stacks off on this flop he'd end up spewing more

 Last edit: 19/01/2015 05:35

4TM   United States. Feb 19 2015 23:33. Posts 712


  On January 19 2015 04:30 Spitfiree wrote:
Show nested quote +



Eeeh depending on the utg, you are used to playing guys that play a bit wider on the utg probably and you re comfortable with your post flop game as you re aware of what hands you have on particular boards & particular actions.
It wouldn't be bad considering Hero obviously sucks post flop ( no offense, most of us do too ).
Soo theoretically sure, you re right, practically he shouldn't do it before he s aware of why he s doing it. He s slightly good vs even tight ranges, but if he stacks off on this flop he'd end up spewing more



Folding pre is a mistake. If you avoid +EV spots because you aren't comfortable playing postflop why are you even playing the game?

edit: Nevermind, I cant read and thought this was 6m....

 Last edit: 21/02/2015 03:23

 



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