Stars raises rake of HU,hypers,spin&go

ideal poker™ one time!!!

Well looking how Partypoker behaves it would be better for online poker if someone else would buy them, i'd prefer iPoker cause of marketshare issues, but is iPoker giving great experience to players? I dont think so, PokerStars with their software and customerservice owns everyone else which is kinda weird: how hard is to have a brain and work out a good business model thinking: "how would i like to be treated and what would be my priorities while playing" even do reaserch and some polling. But no, lets put money in and expect revenue 'casue people like gambling'.
In a way i must say that competition of PokerStars deserves what they are getting.

On December 13 2014 05:04 MadeInPolanD wrote: In a way i must say that competition of PokerStars deserves what they are getting.

I agree completely. I was looking for new sites to play on (based on traffic, fishiness, and deposit bonuses) and I automatically thought of partypoker. I remember they had the 600$ deposit bonus FOREVER. However, after looking at their site, I couldn't find that anymore. Just some 50$ deposit bonus bs.

I wrote them asking about their deposit bonuses - explaining I'm a high traffic player, etc. etc. Also told them this is the time for them to put some serious effort into regaining market share as there are a lot of discontent pokerstars players willing to move..

It took them over a week to write back. And basically they didn't even touch the content of my email. At all. And said ya, all they have is that tiny bonus. I was amazed.

And that's partypoker - not some other tiny site.

This IS the time for competitors to try something. It's as if they're happy with their current revenue and don't want to ruffle any feathers or something.

Long story short - where the f is the business savvy of their competitors?

big companies tend to use legislation in order to monopolize their market. but im sure even if there was a new pokersite pstars would just buy it b4 it got big.

casino sites that would start counting toward comps when you visit and all the direct satellites imaginable and have your wagers count toward their vip programs, etc. that would be something to see, especially if they made it national

On November 10 2014 11:28 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything. Good news imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament": "Great news. But what I dont understand is this: Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys. Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it? Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell... Am I missing something here?"

Does it sound logical to you that Pokerstars would ban a rake paying customer? Me either. The only interest Pokerstars has is to squeeze the juice out of this slowly deflating less juicy lemon called online poker. They aren't interested in the health of the games. They aren't interested in what's best for the poker economy. They're only interested in one thing. How to turn all the money into rake, but keep people coming back for more.

People get so emotional and start doing these dumb irrational argument and statements, I wonder if I were doing the same have not being in a situation that helps me be more thoughtful and with a more balanced perspective in my views regarding pokerstars

On December 15 2014 19:05 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 10 2014 11:28 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything. Good news imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament": "Great news. But what I dont understand is this: Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys. Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it? Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell... Am I missing something here?" Does it sound logical to you that Pokerstars would ban a rake paying customer? Me either. The only interest Pokerstars has is to squeeze the juice out of this slowly deflating less juicy lemon called online poker. They aren't interested in the health of the games. They aren't interested in what's best for the poker economy. They're only interested in one thing. How to turn all the money into rake, but keep people coming back for more.

PokerStars has been pretty much the any company interested in making poker grow in all the world and they have done so, your claim that it wants to squeeze the "lemon dry" is absolutely ridiculous, and ofcourse they are interested in the health of the games the company thrives in that.

People moan and cry about changes and rake, but havent you noticed that the whole world is taxing online poker? every couple of weeks a new one regultes, taxes and some even segregate the market, so the company takes an economical hit, a hit that we as player have to share

On December 15 2014 19:05 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 10 2014 11:28 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything. Good news imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament": "Great news. But what I dont understand is this: Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys. Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it? Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell... Am I missing something here?" Does it sound logical to you that Pokerstars would ban a rake paying customer? Me either. The only interest Pokerstars has is to squeeze the juice out of this slowly deflating less juicy lemon called online poker. They aren't interested in the health of the games. They aren't interested in what's best for the poker economy. They're only interested in one thing. How to turn all the money into rake, but keep people coming back for more.

Whats not logical about banning players using cheating Tools such as ''seat scripting'', confiscating any winnings (if any) and give it back to the players they were taken from ? These cheating Tools kills the games, meaning less games and less rake for pokerstars.

pokerstars charging again 50 cents again on hu tables weeeee!
any SNG players can confirm is the rake changed again ?

PokerStars has been pretty much the any company interested in making poker grow in all the world and they have done so, your claim that it wants to squeeze the "lemon dry" is absolutely ridiculous, and ofcourse they are interested in the health of the games the company thrives in that. People moan and cry about changes and rake, but havent you noticed that the whole world is taxing online poker? every couple of weeks a new one regultes, taxes and some even segregate the market, so the company takes an economical hit, a hit that we as player have to share

Just so everyone is clear, this isn't how math or economics of poker works. Don't take it from me though, listen to Baalim, the stars pro, telling you stars has to rake you more to pay stars pro salaries.

On January 05 2015 13:23 drone666 wrote: pokerstars charging again 50 cents again on hu tables weeeee! any SNG players can confirm is the rake changed again ?

Grow up peoples!

On January 05 2015 15:42 diggerflopboat wrote: Show nested quote + PokerStars has been pretty much the any company interested in making poker grow in all the world and they have done so, your claim that it wants to squeeze the "lemon dry" is absolutely ridiculous, and ofcourse they are interested in the health of the games the company thrives in that. People moan and cry about changes and rake, but havent you noticed that the whole world is taxing online poker? every couple of weeks a new one regultes, taxes and some even segregate the market, so the company takes an economical hit, a hit that we as player have to share Just so everyone is clear, this isn't how math or economics of poker works. Don't take it from me though, listen to Baalim, the stars pro, telling you stars has to rake you more to pay stars pro salaries.   On January 05 2015 13:23 drone666 wrote: pokerstars charging again 50 cents again on hu tables weeeee! any SNG players can confirm is the rake changed again ? Grow up peoples!

Says fish follow pros... then criticizes stars for paying pros... fuck logic lol

Says fish follow pros... then criticizes stars for paying pros... fuck logic lol

What I point out is that it is not a law of economics that pros follow the recs. It is simply what you "old school" players have birthed as a sub optimal culture. If you taught ALL players to be conscious of rake and effective rake we would not be in this situation. And yes I think stars using rake to pay all these pros that are clueless about the sustainability and profitability of the game is a terrible leak that the individual player has. I don't want my rake going to pay Dneg to tell the players that higher raked poker is better for everyone.

In the future he will certainly wish he never said all that stuff, as it will stand out as ludicrous and I'd encourage any stars pro to think about whether or not there is actual merit behind such a stance or if they are just used to sticking up for their "position".

What has happened here is by doing math in the direction of not having central banking Nash was able to create and entire new branch of economics spelling out perfectly the advent of bitcoin.What I am pointing out is you and others have simply failed to step out of the (very shallow) box and think about what the game would be like if we took the raked monies and kept them in the game. I love it when people say they can't understand, its like telling them the world is "no longer" flat...only the next generation will subscribe to such an obvious reality.

Once you step outside the box, the "new math" is super obvious and easy.

Poker 2.0

+ Show Spoiler +

Baalim do we at least agree that making a a bunch of rake changes and then rolling them back is a terrible net business decision? I play a high pop field on stars and I definitely noticed a significant decline in traffic. They won't get these players back. But more importantly is it not suspicious they rolled the rake back before releasing a statement?

Rake hike cancelled

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/en/blog.../2015/2015-rake-rollback-153140.shtml

So we see the beginning of "asymptotically ideal poker" or in other words the steady and exponential decline of "effective" rake. Like we pointed out, Stars cannot raise rake because all it does is teach the players to form a coalition to fight it by effectively leaving the site to crypto and other avenues. It is not a phenomenon of logic but rather natural by way the invisible hand. It is only myth and misunderstanding to suggest or think otherwise. Does Dneg still believe that we need high rake to have good games? Then are we worried now? Seems ridiculous doesn't it?

And now Stars has effectively taught the play a previously not understood or accepted truth: by cooperation the players CAN in fact lower the effective rake...

How long until we collectively realize the true power of this fact?

Yes digger. Your crusader group caused them to roll back their rake raises. It had nothing to do with the high amount of criticism from players.

You did it.

Grats

On January 06 2015 16:49 devon06atX wrote: Yes digger. Your crusader group caused them to roll back their rake raises. It had nothing to do with the high amount of criticism from players. You did it. Grats

Don't be ignorant, economics did it if anything. I simply pointed out a very long time ago that Poker Stars cannot arbitrarily increase rake. And since new technology has lowered the cost of offering poker, rake must therefore inevitably slide. My contribution has not yet been realized. But what is happening is the old argument that sites high rake is good for the game is looking more and more ridiculous everyday. Stars is in trouble and whomever is advising Amaya and Stars is absolutely not functioning on sound economics or logic.

Do we understand this? They are going in the completely wrong directly and it is going to crush them very soon.

while you and others are attempting to ridicule me I am consulting with multiple upstarts that old model cannot compete with or exist beside.

bah i always do this, meant to edit above post