dogmeat   Czech Republic. Nov 07 2014 17:00. Posts 6374
LOL thread still running strong
ban baal
1
Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Nov 07 2014 17:21. Posts 9634
4
Baalim   Mexico. Nov 07 2014 21:24. Posts 34246
All right Gnarly I'll leave the ad-hominems aside and try to have an intelligent discussion if you promise to argue intelligently and actually try to find the truth and not impose what you believe it is.
that graph its trying to exemplify what a difference in STD dev does, its greatly exaggerated to make it easier to see, but in that its totally deceptive, because the difference in STD dev is so low, the amount of people in the "smart area" would be virtually the same, the significant change even with a slight difference in std deviation are the absolute extremes, there would be noticeable more brilliant/dumb white people and NOT significantly more whites in the arbitrary smart area and this has two problems:
1 - If what you think its true, then it means that civilizations and society dominate or succeed mostly not because of collective effort or intelligence, rather than carried by geniuses (something I actually believe) and the reason why I value more std deviation in intelligence than average.
That means you are not really any more intelligent or outperform significantly blacks or other races, they simply have lacked these giants to help them climb the social ladder
2 - If what they are lacking are "giants" then it proves that its not direct collective intelligence what matters, but the social fabric these "giants" weave for the rest of their society, meaning they are suck there underperforming because of social development not personal intelligence, and that was my first argument to begin with.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 08 2014 01:37. Posts 1723
the second link should be a flawed argument against my argument
and yes, baalim, im saying there would be more smart/dumb white people. but im not saying that smart people make society.
but when it comes to the std, you have to account for the population as well. like 100 out of 300k or 100 out of only 500.
im not saying that society is carried by geniuses, it's actually carried by the idiots.
>these giants
what giants are you talking about. do you mean to say geniuses?
like, honestly, i don't really know what you are arguing, cause you don't seem to know what my argument is.
it's simple: there are iq differences between sub-sub species of humans (ie: race, ethnicity, breed, whatever term you think is correct) just like there is a difference between skull sizes, which diseases affect whom, etc.. what im simply saying is that there are differences between people and to say that because we bleed red, we must be the same inside, is fucking stupid. certain dogs are more aggressive than others, and certain dogs are more intelligent than others. to think this doesn't apply to humans, which in itself is a bit of a wrong term to use, is fucking stupid.
even then, the irish, jews, and italians were never considered white until after ww2, where they lost their minority status. many people claim that italians aren't full white, so while the "white" race is a social construct, this doesn't change the fact that there are many different haplotype groups.
what do you define as white? would you think you're white if you found out you were more than half european? after all, spain did rule mexico.
Diversify or fossilize!
4
Baalim   Mexico. Nov 08 2014 03:04. Posts 34246
And yeah I dont think many people will refute that, its clear different races have minor genetic differences, but that is NOT your argument, your argument is that blacks are in a state of poverty because of their lower IQ isnt it ?
Caucasians have many different sub-races to put a name on it, same as blacks and asians.
I know you are not saying geniuses carry society, but thats exactly what the standard deviation argument supports, read again my post, standard deviation argument does not support the stupid "smart area" that is false anybody with a clue about statistics knows that graph is ridiculous and slight changes in std deviation wouldnt affect such area, it would simply populate the extremes more heavily.
In fact the only logical argument your data (assuming its correct, because I havent read the 1st link) would be that races as society were pushed forward by geniuses or their times, leaders, ancient scientists, war tacticians etc, they set their race ahead of others slowly shaping society into what is today, thus races social status and current situation was determined by the std dev in intellilgence in their race, the geniuses.
Because again... your argument that smater = better and more dominating society its obviously not based on objective reality because there would be a clear asian domination of the world, and there isnt one.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 08 2014 06:47. Posts 1723
black people could be in poverty due to temperament.
and again, society isn't carried by the geniuses. it's carried by the idiots. markets lean towards seeing what demand is generated by idiots. after all, a smart person isn't going to profit as much from another smart person as they are with an idiot. so, i guess, really, it's both that carry society.
but please quote me where I say that smarter - better. i really want you to quote out my arguments because you keep putting words in my mouth. being smart doesn't make you a better person, but smart people can be assholes more often than not and end up turning to drugs and other outlets so they can stop thinking and seeing all the wrong in this world. smart people can literally not give a fuck and just couch surf with a skateboard.
honestly, some of your logic is fucking retarded that i can't even comprehend it.
>not based on objective reality
like what the fuck does that even mean? you keep using these vague as fuck terms to try to put together an argument but really all i see is a person just trying to use big words to sound smart.
again, like ive said MANY TIMES, the smartest race is jews, and whites are actually ahead of asians, which if you read the fucking links i provided you, you would see. korea and japan are the only countries that are legitimate with high asian scores, cause we know how rampant cheating is in china. then, you have to bring up all of the asian countries, not just the best two, and compare them with all of the white countries. turns out, whites average higher than asians.
and we do see that the jews do take up the majority of the global elite. remember, hitler was a jew.
then again, do you consider ashkenazi jews to be white? what is your definition of white?
Diversify or fossilize!
1
WhyYouKickMyDog   United States. Nov 08 2014 16:13. Posts 1623
On November 08 2014 05:47 Gnarly wrote:
>not based on objective reality
like what the fuck does that even mean? you keep using these vague as fuck terms
LOL that term is not vague at all, and it's extremely commonly used in scientific discussion. And it was used very well in this context. Perhaps you should just learn what it means...
1
WhyYouKickMyDog   United States. Nov 08 2014 16:19. Posts 1623
On November 06 2014 09:55 Gnarly wrote:
iq means quite a bit. i mean, if you're stupid, you're going to be dead more often than not at an earlier age than someone who is smart.
This is the guy I meant to post
I used to be a hard IQ tests supporter.
This guy literally devoted his life to people with insanely high IQ. He took thousands of kids who according to current MENSA's understandings would be geniuses and filtered most of them with even worse IQ tests to leave a few hundred with the highest IQ. They were his research for decades. He wrote a few books about their life development as he expected as they were smarter that they would be much more efficient in society in things they do, things they discover, he expected them to be innovators etc etc. In the end after 40 or so years he found out that his research was actually as good as toilette paper as the sample of prodigies led the same life as another random sample of average IQ people ( I think the cap was around 120IQ in current understandings )
There was a book in which they compared someone from the "Termites" who was from an abusive low class family, who won a bunch of "who wants to be a millionaire" and such type of shows later in life to Oppenheimer who wasn't really a genius, but grew up in a high class family with parents that knew what they were doing. Obviously the comparison made has this huge social contrast, but its only to make a more solid point. One had the brain to do wonders, but in the end he just blew through all the money he had. The other became the creator of the atomic bomb, which obviously is morally questionable, but still scientifically huge.
You could be a retard, but if you develop the right habits and have the right mindset you can go a long way. It's very important how you view yourself from an early age, how you threat people that have higher authority than you, finding the right sources to motivate yourself etc etc.
There are tons of factors and the IQ is just a really small insignificant part of them, I'd say self-awareness being the most important factor and I don't mean it in the geeky embarrassing kind of way, but the opposite.
if you expect smart people to be innovators, that's quite a jump. intelligence does have an effect on personality, but when it comes to innovating and such, it's more the personality that matters. (ie: mtbi type) being smart can hinder your social skills, or you can be too smart in one aspect but lack smarts in another, and this will hurt you depending on which jobs are available to you in your area. the american jews pre ww2 were poor and whatnot, yet have risen to the global elite within 50 years. so, obviously, considering they have the highest average intelligence of all ethnic groups, that there could very well be some correlation there.
HOWEVER, when it came to living in villages and having to actually hunt for your food and the need to survive was ever present, those who were smarter lived longer. they were more likely to be the alpha of the village.
i know someone i work with has the same exact personality type I have, and everyone says we could be brothers, but everyone knows that im far smarter than him and everyone calls him a dumbass behind his back because of how much money he "leaves on the table".
one should realize where they are strong and weak at, and seek to find those who are strong in their weak areas to work with. being a one-man genius-team doesn't work out much.
I have randomly opened this thread and randomly read this post. Then I went into your HHs thinking you play high stakes... disappointment. I will not open this thread anymore so don't bother answering.
Last edit: 08/11/2014 21:43
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 09 2014 01:23. Posts 1723
On November 08 2014 05:47 Gnarly wrote:
>not based on objective reality
like what the fuck does that even mean? you keep using these vague as fuck terms
LOL that term is not vague at all, and it's extremely commonly used in scientific discussion. And it was used very well in this context. Perhaps you should just learn what it means...
i know what objective and reality mean, but what does HE mean by it? i mean, after all, he's only spewing out bullshit and proving no sources of any kind.
Diversify or fossilize!
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 09 2014 01:25. Posts 1723
On November 06 2014 09:55 Gnarly wrote:
iq means quite a bit. i mean, if you're stupid, you're going to be dead more often than not at an earlier age than someone who is smart.
This is the guy I meant to post
I used to be a hard IQ tests supporter.
This guy literally devoted his life to people with insanely high IQ. He took thousands of kids who according to current MENSA's understandings would be geniuses and filtered most of them with even worse IQ tests to leave a few hundred with the highest IQ. They were his research for decades. He wrote a few books about their life development as he expected as they were smarter that they would be much more efficient in society in things they do, things they discover, he expected them to be innovators etc etc. In the end after 40 or so years he found out that his research was actually as good as toilette paper as the sample of prodigies led the same life as another random sample of average IQ people ( I think the cap was around 120IQ in current understandings )
There was a book in which they compared someone from the "Termites" who was from an abusive low class family, who won a bunch of "who wants to be a millionaire" and such type of shows later in life to Oppenheimer who wasn't really a genius, but grew up in a high class family with parents that knew what they were doing. Obviously the comparison made has this huge social contrast, but its only to make a more solid point. One had the brain to do wonders, but in the end he just blew through all the money he had. The other became the creator of the atomic bomb, which obviously is morally questionable, but still scientifically huge.
You could be a retard, but if you develop the right habits and have the right mindset you can go a long way. It's very important how you view yourself from an early age, how you threat people that have higher authority than you, finding the right sources to motivate yourself etc etc.
There are tons of factors and the IQ is just a really small insignificant part of them, I'd say self-awareness being the most important factor and I don't mean it in the geeky embarrassing kind of way, but the opposite.
if you expect smart people to be innovators, that's quite a jump. intelligence does have an effect on personality, but when it comes to innovating and such, it's more the personality that matters. (ie: mtbi type) being smart can hinder your social skills, or you can be too smart in one aspect but lack smarts in another, and this will hurt you depending on which jobs are available to you in your area. the american jews pre ww2 were poor and whatnot, yet have risen to the global elite within 50 years. so, obviously, considering they have the highest average intelligence of all ethnic groups, that there could very well be some correlation there.
HOWEVER, when it came to living in villages and having to actually hunt for your food and the need to survive was ever present, those who were smarter lived longer. they were more likely to be the alpha of the village.
i know someone i work with has the same exact personality type I have, and everyone says we could be brothers, but everyone knows that im far smarter than him and everyone calls him a dumbass behind his back because of how much money he "leaves on the table".
one should realize where they are strong and weak at, and seek to find those who are strong in their weak areas to work with. being a one-man genius-team doesn't work out much.
I have randomly opened this thread and randomly read this post. Then I went into your HHs thinking you play high stakes... disappointment. I will not open this thread anymore so don't bother answering.
i regularly play 200nl KEK
Diversify or fossilize!
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 09 2014 02:44. Posts 1723
baalim, do you know your ancestry? of course, you live in mexico, and you certainly look mexican, so im going to assume that you were born in mexico. im also going to assume that your parents and grand parents and great grand parents were born in mexico, as well. however, im going to assume that you have more european in you than you do indigenous american.
after all, mexico is spain's little child, just like america is england's little child, just like canada is france's little child.
Diversify or fossilize!
Last edit: 09/11/2014 02:45
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 09 2014 05:04. Posts 1723
Minneapolis schools need permission to suspend minority students
The change comes amid intensifying scrutiny of the way Minneapolis public schools treat minority students and in the wake of new data showing black students are 10 times more likely to be sent home than white students.
Superintendent Bernadeia Johnson said she wants to “disrupt that in any way that I can.”
So, according to Bernadeia, all students cause the same amount of trouble, but whites are "let off the hook" while blacks are suspended. There is a major flaw in this argument, as simply stating that blacks are suspended at a rate 10 times more than white can very well be true, the assumption that both whites and blacks are sent down to the principle's office at the same rate is only that: an assumption. There is no data behind the rate of being sent down to the office.
Not only that, this also implies that it's natural for black students to be troublemakers, rather than, as baalim would like to see it, setting better standards for all students. Of course, humans are gonna human, but it kinda seems like it's black culture imposing itself on american culture, rather than the other way around. I mean, according to their logic, they very well could swing towards saying they need to punish white students 10x harsher or at a factor of 10x.
There will also be even more reason for white students to resent non-white students, and non-white students to resent white students, which is a classic case of mccarthyism: just say "racist" and everything shuts down, must like during the second red scare and being labeled a communist. Everyone's fingers are still pointing, they are just in different directions now.
Diversify or fossilize!
4
Baalim   Mexico. Nov 09 2014 22:32. Posts 34246
all i see is a person just trying to use big words to sound smart.
You think I try to use big words in my 2nd language to sound smart only because something like objective reality isn't very clear to you ? lol all right buddy
and again, society isn't carried by the geniuses. it's carried by the idiots. markets lean towards seeing what demand is generated by idiots. after all, a smart person isn't going to profit as much from another smart person as they are with an idiot. so, i guess, really, it's both that carry society.
lol... a person like Da Vinci can send his society forward for hundreds of years, so a Tesla, a Newton etc, an idiot does nothing to shape society individually, and while their collective stupidity is what gives a shape to humanity (a clear example of this would be the prevalence of religion) the ones who truly hold the chisel are brilliant cynics who use these idiots as they please.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 09 2014 23:44. Posts 1723
someone like da vinci could come up with something like cell phones back in his day, but it's the idiots who decide whether or not cell phones are going to be used.
i know what objective reality is, but you clearly don't understand the word "objective" considering you haven't provided any sources, nor do you try to point out what has been objectified. im asking you what you think the objective reality is.
Diversify or fossilize!
1
WhyYouKickMyDog   United States. Nov 11 2014 18:51. Posts 1623
he knows what objective reality is. i suspect you dont. one reason i suspect this (among many reasons) is that you just said "try to point out what has been objectified", which doesn't make any sense. objectified is a completely unrelated word to objective.
objectified: express (something abstract) in a concrete form. degrade to the status of a mere object.
objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
4
Baalim   Mexico. Nov 11 2014 19:51. Posts 34246
I wonder how he will try to dodge that one lol.
But yeah im done with this discussion, I honestly tried but he is just unaware of his stupidity and you cant reason with people like that
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
0
Gnarly   United States. Nov 11 2014 19:55. Posts 1723
yes, objective is about facts, so that which has been factualized, as in made into a fact, could also be said to have been objectified. (turning abstract into fact) (as in turning a speculation into fact by gathering data and interpreting it accordingly, as in the fact that black people are sent more to prison, but is that because of the speculation that not only white people, but everyone else, are let off the hook, or simply that black people really do commit more crime on average. it's like with the school punishment and holder, he thinks that black students are disproportionately punished compared to white students based on their skin color, so that he wants to change how black students are punished compared to other students. yes, black students are punished more often, but again, how often are white students NOT punished when compared to how often they get sent to the office, which is like going to trial.) what I'm asking for is the facts, which he has not bothered to post.
all he has posted is his SUBJECTIVE reality.
baalim, ive asked you plenty of questions to which you have dodged and keep dodging.
Diversify or fossilize!
Last edit: 11/11/2014 19:56
0
dogmeat   Czech Republic. Nov 14 2014 08:38. Posts 6374
ban baal
1
Silver_nz   New Zealand. Nov 14 2014 18:12. Posts 5647