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GoTuNk   Chile. Oct 04 2014 19:07. Posts 2860


  On October 04 2014 03:29 Baalim wrote:
pessimism is as wrong as optimism but people usually dont properly define them



I've found a delusional belief in myself is key on my lifting success


Baalim   Mexico. Oct 04 2014 23:06. Posts 34246


  On October 04 2014 18:07 GoTuNk wrote:
Show nested quote +



I've found a delusional belief in myself is key on my lifting success


and the guy who won this last WCOOP said that his positivism was key to his victory... lulz

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Loco   Canada. Oct 05 2014 04:17. Posts 20963


  On October 04 2014 03:29 Baalim wrote:
pessimism is as wrong as optimism but people usually dont properly define them



In the first sense of the word which you use, the one which relates to a state of mind, pessimism is useful and does not oppose realism except in rare cases of pessimistic bias. Otherwise they are not in competition with each other, they complement each other. Both are about perspective in two different situations. In this context, realism is applied to a present situation that you have knowledge of and which you must take action upon, while pessimism places its concern in future situations which you have no knowledge of at the time. You can't be a realist with regards to the future because 1) you are invested in it, with desires, needs and beliefs and 2) you don't know anything about it, you can only imagine or expect things based on certain factors, but there is no certainty. So you either hope for the best or imagine how it could be negative or harmful. It's realistic (and preferable) to anticipate bad outcomes and to often imagine the worse that could happen, which is what pessimism consists of. It is a much healthier and prudent outlook than its opposite, and they are the only two options. We are just like other animals, acting to gratify ourselves/avoid nociceptive stimulation, so detached neutrality is not an option. The pessimist/realist won't fall prey to the best case fallacy or the just-world fallacy ('you reap what you sow'), whereas the optimist does and will be the cause of disasters. This is something the Stoics knew about and recommended people guard themselves against on a daily basis. Unlike many people think it can also be used productively (linked a video on this below). Marcus Aurelius and Seneca were good examples of that also: despite their melancholy character, they were very active men.

In the second sense of the word there is a misunderstanding about pessimism which have some people think that it's wrong and that 'realism' is the proper term, simply because they only think of it in a colloquial, state of mind way. Historically there has been two senses to the words pessimism/optimism. Many of you have seen True Detective and probably heard it there first. Cohle says, "I'd consider myself a realist, alright? But in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist... I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution." (Video of that below). In philosophical terms again just like in the first sense nobody is a 'realist' in the sense that nobody is neutral about the state of the world and the human condition: everybody has some kind of position when it comes to politics and metaphysics, even the stupidest people who could not answer if they were asked have some beliefs about themselves and the world they live in, and they can be categorized as optimistic or pessimistic. A person who believes in a cosmic teleological purpose, or in social and moral progress, for example, is by definition optimistic; and there is only one contrasting position possible, which is understood to be pessimism, because it doubts or opposes the claims of optimists. A so-called realist in this context would have to be neutral and evaluate nothing and believe there are no good or bad outcomes to actions and things just are what they are and "life simply is". And unless you lived in ancient China 2600 years ago it's going to be hard to believe that you aren't full of shit if that's what you say your philosophical views are. Of course I know you don't think like this.

Philosophically, it's actually pretty similar to the agnosticism/atheism issue that a lot of people bring up. "There is no way you can be an agnostic", says the atheist who is quite confident that he can negate the existence of a great number of deities and that a non-position on their existence is ridiculous. The pessimist is, just like the atheist in this example, the one who takes a position because he is confident that the optimist is wrong and that the evidence is way too strong against their claims. There is no other option, and it would be just as absurd for the pessimist not to take a position and say he doesn't know as it is for the atheist.




fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 05/10/2014 06:07

GoTuNk   Chile. Oct 05 2014 13:47. Posts 2860


  On October 04 2014 22:06 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



and the guy who won this last WCOOP said that his positivism was key to his victory... lulz



I'm quite sure you can't make that analogy lol


dogmeat   Czech Republic. Oct 05 2014 18:04. Posts 6374

i was lurking 2p2...


  adam001 wrote:
- continue to work with mindset coach Leo Gura for the next 3 months (highly recommend - [url]www.actualized.org[/url] for more info)



wtf?

ban baal 

Baalim   Mexico. Oct 05 2014 21:01. Posts 34246


  On October 05 2014 12:47 GoTuNk wrote:
Show nested quote +



I'm quite sure you can't make that analogy lol



Quite sure I can.

having delusions of your capabilities is in no way better than having realistic ones, In which way could it possibly lead to better results?

It doesnt, and even if it did holding a belief for its uses and not because its true its pathetic and dishonest and actually that mindset is a plague in this world and one of the reasons why myth and stupidity triumph constantly over truth and reason

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Daut    United States. Oct 05 2014 23:21. Posts 8955

this thread is too long with too much nonsense, i just want to know if the poker player in the video is leatherass. sounds a lot like him imo. brags about poker accomplishments, middle aged married guy, seems depressed

NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, DautLast edit: 05/10/2014 23:21

GoTuNk   Chile. Oct 06 2014 01:12. Posts 2860


  On October 05 2014 20:01 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



Quite sure I can.

having delusions of your capabilities is in no way better than having realistic ones, In which way could it possibly lead to better results?

It doesnt, and even if it did holding a belief for its uses and not because its true its pathetic and dishonest and actually that mindset is a plague in this world and one of the reasons why myth and stupidity triumph constantly over truth and reason



Because it impacts on your behavior. The mind controls the body and the belief placebo effect is incredible.

When doing multiple sets and your body feels like shit, you need that delusional confidence to keep plowing trough. I'm quite sure that happens on pretty much any sport that requires physical exertion.

"Like I stated earlier, however, you’re not going to become a Superman overnight, and
it’s not going to be an easy road. Start by changing your mindset when you’re entering
the gym. When you walk into the gym, you need to flip a switch in your head and
decide that you feel indomitable, like an immovable object, a force that cannot
possibly be opposed. (...), you just need to determine how to create a mindset in which
you’re so infused with positive aggression and overall positivity that you feel invincible."
Jamie Lewis, World record holder last year.

This is way different than being a moron and you can meditate your way to lifting more weight.
I'm a realist in how I evaluate the world and usually agree with you, the delusional mindset is an emotional thing; it's how you need to feel to excel.

I've been lifting for so long now that by merely looking at people lift I can tell if they have the mindset to keep progressing or not when shit gets tough.


Baalim   Mexico. Oct 06 2014 01:42. Posts 34246

Nonsense you can see many elite athletes with a stoic mindset that dont need retarded delusions, see Fedor for example, you wont see him saying stupid shit like "im unstoppable, im a beast bla bla" he just goes and does what it needs to be done

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Trav94   Canada. Oct 06 2014 02:24. Posts 1785


  On October 06 2014 00:42 Baalim wrote:
Nonsense you can see many elite athletes with a stoic mindset that dont need retarded delusions, see Fedor for example, you wont see him saying stupid shit like "im unstoppable, im a beast bla bla" he just goes and does what it needs to be done



Not everyone thinks the same way as you Baal. Stop being close minded


Loco   Canada. Oct 06 2014 20:04. Posts 20963


  On October 06 2014 00:42 Baalim wrote:
Nonsense you can see many elite athletes with a stoic mindset that dont need retarded delusions, see Fedor for example, you wont see him saying stupid shit like "im unstoppable, im a beast bla bla" he just goes and does what it needs to be done



Fedor gets out of bed in the morning because of his faith in God. What were you saying?

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount 

GoTuNk   Chile. Oct 06 2014 20:35. Posts 2860


  On October 06 2014 19:04 Loco wrote:
Show nested quote +



Fedor gets out of bed in the morning because of his faith in God. What were you saying?


He also said on another interview that he didn't always had food as a kid, and he see his opponent as someone trying to make his family starve again.


Loco   Canada. Oct 07 2014 03:26. Posts 20963

Yeah, I remember hearing something to that effect. That's negative visualization right there-- pessimism. Very effective motivational tool, like I said.

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 07/10/2014 03:26

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Oct 08 2014 01:10. Posts 5290


  On October 04 2014 13:28 lebowski wrote:
Lold toying around with the Chopra wisdom generator

Stroggos I'm curious, when you say you argued with your professors that they are immoral, did you mean by their own standards or regarding a universally true morality they should already understand?



Both maybe? Not too sure. I've never even studied ethics... but my moral arguments are extremely basic ones that 12 year old children can understand. I would like to eventually study ethics, but its low down on my list at the moment because its not necessary to study it at a deep level when the worlds problems is pretty much made up of people breaking moral principles that children can understand. An example of basic moral principles would be something like hypocrisy.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings 

Baalim   Mexico. Oct 08 2014 04:36. Posts 34246


  On October 06 2014 19:04 Loco wrote:
Show nested quote +



Fedor gets out of bed in the morning because of his faith in God. What were you saying?


Faith is stupid but it doesnt get in any way of stoicism, in fact some old school faith of surrendering to the will of your god is a form of stoicism, but you know this and you are just trolling

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Loco   Canada. Oct 08 2014 07:22. Posts 20963

I'm only half-teasing. I do think that after a thorough philosophical investigation we do see that motivation and illusion go hand in hand. I feel it's also hard to separate a man and his character from his faith (or lack thereof). Not that faith is necessary to be a good man or a resilient man, of course.

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 08/10/2014 08:21

nawazali   Pakistan. Oct 20 2014 00:33. Posts 3


Of course they say the same things because it's what works in this New Agey, self-improvement obsessed culture. People love being deceived. The market for it is huge, so the amount of "life coaches" multiplies by the hour, even though their so-called knowledge is just recycled pop psychology, clichés and bits of ancient wisdom that is often diluted out of existence or perverted by new age mumbo jumbo.




_________________
Nawaz


nawazali   Pakistan. Oct 20 2014 00:36. Posts 3

Of course they say the same things because it's what works in this New Agey, self-improvement obsessed culture. People love being deceived. The market for it is huge, so the amount of "life coaches" multiplies by the hour, even though their so-called knowledge is just recycled pop psychology, clichés and bits of ancient wisdom that is often diluted out of existence or perverted by new age mumbo jumbo.





__________________________
Nawaz


nawazali   Pakistan. Oct 20 2014 00:58. Posts 3


Of course they say the same things because it's what works in this New Agey, self-improvement obsessed culture. People love being deceived. The market for it is huge, so the amount of "life coaches" multiplies by the hour, even though their so-called knowledge is just recycled pop psychology, clichés and bits of ancient wisdom that is often diluted out of existence or perverted by new age mumbo jumbo.





__________________________
Nawaz


Liquid`Drone   Norway. Oct 20 2014 10:54. Posts 3093


  On October 05 2014 20:01 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



Quite sure I can.

having delusions of your capabilities is in no way better than having realistic ones, In which way could it possibly lead to better results?

It doesnt, and even if it did holding a belief for its uses and not because its true its pathetic and dishonest and actually that mindset is a plague in this world and one of the reasons why myth and stupidity triumph constantly over truth and reason



optimism on behalf of the self is like, the one mindset which greatly positively influences performance. The better you think you will do, the better you do. It doesn't transfer to poker because poker is luck based, but for sports, or any type of performance? a job interview? Or even any type of new learning situation.. Entering the situation thinking you will succeed greatly increases the probability that you do. Of course, there's an element where having mastered something breeds optimism, so there's a slight amount of chicken vs egg thingy going on, but overall there are very strong ties between a positive mentality and performance.

I'm all with you that this type of self-delusion is negative though, because I think happiness is a higher goal than performance, and happiness is basically reality minus expectation. But there are aspects of positive psychology that can immensely useful when trying to form a good learning environment; this is why mostly all games and education become gradually more challenging. The impression that "I can't do this" is such a hurdle that people don't even try, often when they actually could do it. The impression that "I can do this" on the other end is motivation to keep on trying even when you can't. Which can be negative - but not when trying to maximize performance.

lol POKER 

 
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