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New in the forum asking for help on some spots

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AhKh   Mexico. Sep 18 2014 01:49. Posts 4

Hey there im new in the forum, a friend told me about this site as a good one to learn and discuss hands.

I have been playing poker semi professional since 3 years ago.

Sadly im not to smart and also I get used to win a minimum amount monthly, thats why I think I never go on on stakes.


Right now im playing nl25/nl50 at stars, what I want to know are some responses as I see with the pass of the time the following actions are not getting as profitable as they were


1 - Doing CC with hands like JJ-AA, I used to did this against players who folds more than 70% against the 3bet, is still valid to do this ??

2 - Stealing like a maniac, I used to steal at something like 50 at BU and 60 at SB , and worked great, but now most of the players at the stakes are folding against to me something like 50% on BB vs SB and 3betting me like 15% from BB to SB and like 10% ffrom SB to BU ...

What I want to know is: How im I supposed to play now ?? I was thinking on keep the same style but start 4betting more hands and also doing call to theyr 3bets with haands that goes good against the 10-15% range ... Or I might stop stealing like a maniac and select better hands to steal and keep my 3bet call and 4bet as usual ?


Thanks for the support guys !!

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the cleaner   Germany. Sep 18 2014 16:17. Posts 3014

You seem to have a pretty good idea about the game. i'm also playing 50nl, and stealing a ton from the btn and sb is still super profitable. just adjust your ranges when you have people who don't fold and 3bet a ton sb vs bb and also tighten up a bit on the button or play around with the preflop open betsizes. as for flatting JJ-AA preflop, is a good play, especially since there is more aggressiveness in the blinds nowadays. I guess you allready have your hud setup to show (bb fold to steal vs sb and vs btn). good luck !

there are no facts only interpretations 

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Sep 19 2014 03:45. Posts 9634

15% 3bets from the blinds is something quite standard these days, doesn't mean you shouldn't open 50-60% :D


AhKh   Mexico. Sep 19 2014 10:25. Posts 4


  On September 18 2014 15:17 the cleaner wrote:
You seem to have a pretty good idea about the game. i'm also playing 50nl, and stealing a ton from the btn and sb is still super profitable. just adjust your ranges when you have people who don't fold and 3bet a ton sb vs bb and also tighten up a bit on the button or play around with the preflop open betsizes. as for flatting JJ-AA preflop, is a good play, especially since there is more aggressiveness in the blinds nowadays. I guess you allready have your hud setup to show (bb fold to steal vs sb and vs btn). good luck !



yup, but still a hard limit for me, maybe the problem is postflop


AhKh   Mexico. Sep 19 2014 10:36. Posts 4


  On September 19 2014 02:45 Spitfiree wrote:
15% 3bets from the blinds is something quite standard these days, doesn't mean you shouldn't open 50-60% :D



Yes but where I lose myself is when I should decide between doing call or 4bet when they 3bet me, for example, AQ ... Im ahead against a 15% range of 3bet, but which would be the best move ?? call or 4bet ?? ... I guess it all depends on how good are we post flop on a 3bet pot ... Because most of the times we'r goingto receive a CB, so if we dont hit an A,Q ... many of us are feeling a little bit lost when this happens ...


And if we choose to 4bet, certainly we are taking the money preflop from the receipt 3bet many times, but maybe we are making the rival to fold random hands too many times, hands that we could easily beat and extract more money postflop

Its a hard topic to discuss, but at the end I guess the one who could dominate it and make the best decitions on this spots are getting a lot of profit

 Last edit: 19/09/2014 10:51

SemPeR   Canada. Sep 19 2014 22:17. Posts 2288

1. 3bet way more, but don't flat.
2. this is hard to get into without long discussions, but general advice of stealing less when it is less profitable applies.
if you are on training sites, each site should have videos that focus on topics like this, find them by looking at the comments sections.

Although when I read this:
"Sadly im not to smart and also I get used to win a minimum amount monthly, thats why I think I never go on on stakes."

I'm inclined to think the away from table work that will help you profit the most will not be in discussions like this, but figuring out what your other goals are.


AhKh   Mexico. Sep 22 2014 02:11. Posts 4


  On September 19 2014 21:17 SemPeR wrote:
1. 3bet way more, but don't flat.
2. this is hard to get into without long discussions, but general advice of stealing less when it is less profitable applies.
if you are on training sites, each site should have videos that focus on topics like this, find them by looking at the comments sections.




1- Could you explain it better ?? , I mean for a lot of time I was thinking that flatting with JJ-AA against oponents who folds a lot to 3bet could be more profitable, I mean I do this only to thoseo nes with a 70+ fold vs 3bet

2- Just discovered against players who has more than 20k hands against me the fact theyr not folding not too much in the BB vs SB spot against ME ... so I decided to slow it a little bit for a while, fun fact is almost the perfect situation is when Im on BU ... almost all of my opponents are folding 70+ on SB vs BU and 70+ BB vs BU ... so I guess that spot still being profitable, but not BB vs SB , most of the regs are folding against me lower than 50% so Im going to slow down there


ToT)MidiaN(    United Kingdom. Sep 22 2014 06:26. Posts 5070

People's fold vs 3bet stats nowadays are much lower than they used to be, just playing your strong hands fast preflop as a general strategy is the way forward, but of course there will still be situations where flatting monsters preflop is better, particularly when there are very aggressive squeezers still to act behind you.

I don't think any of the big winners are opening less than 50% on the button, even in games where the blinds are folding rarely. Just because you get flat called enough such that your preflop steal by itself is slightly losing doesn't mean you can't make that up postflop where you have position and the stronger overall range with many opportunities to either steal the pot or to make a hand. People's tendency in the big blind is just to flat a lot rather than 3bet a lot nowadays and this isn't such a problem for you opening a wide range as you get to realise a lot of your equity. SB v BB play however, lots of good players are opening much tighter here against tough big blinds, but there are still many players who are playing too tight from the big blind, particularly at lower stakes and against them you can profitably open a fuck ton of hands.

One day good. One day bad. And some days, even hopeLast edit: 22/09/2014 06:26

Almebeast   Sweden. Sep 23 2014 04:03. Posts 797

I'm pretty sure you should open way less from the SB than from BTN in general. Opening 60% from the SB seems way too high, and 50% from BTN seems a bit too low. Maybe you can still get away with stealing that much from the SB at NL5, but definitely not at NL50.

After all is said and done, more is said than done. 

JohnnyBologna   United States. Sep 23 2014 17:05. Posts 1401

Damn, is this a serious poker discussion?

Just do whats right 

Mardagg   Germany. Sep 25 2014 20:21. Posts 843

AhKh,is that you that I know?

You should have said that you play Full Ring,mostly Pot Limit which is somewhat different as a whole,thats why most of the good advise here isnt 100% fitting,since 6 max plays different to Full Ring and Full Ring NL plays slightly different to Full Ring PL.
The main thing to consider with PL is,that you cant punish the fishes or weak regs for calling your 3 or 4bets much too light,since you cant overbet preflop...thats why on PL you are seeing a ton more multiway pots in 3bet or 4bet situations,which can get rather hard to play right at times. Also,post flop,since you cant overbet,you see a ton more calling stations at PL that somehow manage to breakeven/slightly win,so you have to work out the best strategy on how to punish them the most within the bet size limits.

I agree with ToTMidian that SB vs BB,you have to pay extremely attention on who is in the BB and tighten your stealing range vs players that pay attention to these spots and defend their BB ...certainly a leak of you as of now.
Also Almebeast is right,that on 25 NL/PL as a whole,you dont have necessarily to tighten your stealing range or worry about 3bet/4bet ranges too much vs the average reg you encounter,but starting at 50NL/PL this gets a lot more important.
If your winrate did drop that significantly at 25 as well though,then your main leaks are elsewhere...besides you could also be running very bad right now over a long time(or you did run very good at the start of your career and now it balances out).

Another problem btw is the very small player pool at 25 - 50 PL,with everyone having tons of hands from each other.
Many regs are constantly working on their game and looking at the stats of their everyday opponents,searching for leaks and coming up with new strategies every other month...you have to constantly adapt, hud stats can be very misleading in these types of situations...thats the main problem I have from time to time when I mix in PL tables.

 Last edit: 25/09/2014 22:03

FFGenerations   . Sep 26 2014 04:39. Posts 99

edit: made this thread instead http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-foru...Hearthstone_got_me_thinking_ab...html

 Last edit: 26/09/2014 07:43

 



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