PLO H/L Strategy/Hand Discussion

I decided to post this in the High Stakes forum since I think it gets more views and responses than the "Other Poker Games" forum. If mods feel like this needs to be moved then go ahead but I prefer to have it left here.

So I've been playing a live game that has a 3 game mix, 1 round of each: No Limit Hold'em, Pot Limit Omaha, and Pot Limit Omaha H/L. The blinds are $5/$5 with many players putting $10-$25 straddles on the button at times. Usually everyone is pretty deep as well as the game has a min-buyin of $500 and some people buyin for $1000 or more.

I feel I have a pretty decent grasp on NLHE and PLO High but feel really confused as to what to do in a lot of situations for PLO H/L. For example what hands to open with preflop, what hands to open limp/call a raise or what hands to limp/fold to a raise (or should I never be doing this?), what hands to 3bet with, ect. Also not sure how to play certain postflop spots when I have the nut low draw/2nd nut low draw and no high hand or if I have a good high hand and no low draw.

Here is an example of a hand I played last night that I'm not sure about:

Game is 7 handed. Blinds are $5/$5 and there is no straddle this hand. I am UTG with and limp for $5. Both blinds are recreational players so I want to play pots with them. I felt my hand was not strong enough to raise preflop and stand a re-pot so my plan was to just limp/call. Should I just fold preflop to begin with?

Anyway, one player UTG+1 limps, folds to CO who pots to $30 (we'll call CO, Villain 1), SB folds, and BB calls (we'll call BB Villain 2), I call and UTG+1 folds.

Villain 1 is my friend who I consider to be a good thinking player. Villain 2 is a recreational player who is pretty loose preflop and a passive, fit or fold type of player postflop but is capable of getting super aggressive with his bare nut low draws, bare 2nd nut low draws.

Also as far as stack sizes go, Villain 1 has roughly $800 behind, Villain 2 about $1k behind and I cover both.

So flop comes down

checks around to Villain 1 who bets $80 into a pot of $100

Villain 2 raises immediately to $180

I think for awhile and re-pot to $750.
Standard? Any argument for cold-calling?

Villain 1 announces he's all in.

Villain 2 thinks for a decent amount of time then calls, leaving about $200 behind.

I am not able to raise because it is less than a minimum raise and call.

Turn is the

Villain 2 checks and I put him all in.

I'm going to go ahead and post results since I'm interested in what you guys think about everybody's play in this hand.

Villain 2 has

Villain 1 has

The river comes out the so the final board is



So what do you guys think of my play in this hand and both villains' play?

Also just some general thoughts as to what you guys think is good to do in this game and what is not good to do. I will post some more specific examples of some of my questions in the beginning of the thread but I wanted to go ahead and get this thread up and running.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

probably just have to fold flop with no low draw. so many good straight draw/fd hands that have really strong equity vs set that are also freerolling low draw. if your 9 was 2/4/5/7/8 itd probably be different

When a passive villain raises that flop you're done. He'll always have either top set or flush draw+low draw and you do poorly vs that range.

Fold pre. Low pairs are really not good in this game.

I would fold this hand pre. Ur potential high hands and potential low hands are both not that strong.

I've only played limit omaha H/L but in a ring game, i think you can be very selective preflop with hands alot of the time. Its probably really important to be drawing to clean lows

plo8 is a disgrace, o8 should always be fixed limit.

then again i also think nlhe is a joke compared to flhe.

On May 21 2013 18:01 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I've only played limit omaha H/L but in a ring game, i think you can be very selective preflop with hands alot of the time. Its probably really important to be drawing to clean lows

this. essentially, with the hand you have pre you're at best drawing to a split, and especially in 3way situations you're just getting crushed by hands which can be a massive favorite against you. besides that, your hand is often playing to win half the pot instead of to scoop, which is quite bad. Therefore, play hands that have potential for both (suited ace + LO(5 or under) card + broadway card, preferrably suited obv). As said before, bottomset is worthless due to this

obv topset vs midset looks like a cooler, but even a hand like a nutflushdraw with a random LO is a massive favorite versus your hand. A six hi LO draw is not going to help you a lot, so if you're whiffing your set you're pretty fucked. Hence: fold low pairs. Furthermore, having a nine in your hand is quite bad because it rarely helps you (lets you not draw to the nuts on HHx boards, weak on boards with 2 cards lower than 8)

start playing around with http://www.propokertools.com/simulations to get a better idea about equities.

fwiw, I'm nowhere near a highstakes player but this is a really basic mistake comparable to limping KTs or something preflop UTG in a remotely aggressive ringgame.

ur hand is terrible, def fold pre

Ok I'm going to be playing in the same game today and will try to be a lot more selective pre

Will jot down any interesting hands and post them later tonight or tommorrow

Didn't have too many really interesting hands last night. I did play a lot tighter in PLO H/L and feel I overall played a lot better.

Here is one hand I played in PLO High that might be good for discussion.

I've never played with this Villain before but he is supposedly a very good PLO reg who mostly travels the live circuit and plays some online. He's had some deep runs in big buy in PLO events.

Anyway, on to the hand:

I have a little over $900 in front of me to start the hand and the Villain covers.

No straddle, 2 players limp for $5 UTG (Villain) and UTG+2, folds to CO who is a pretty loose recreational player and he raises to $20.

I am on the BT with and flat. Both limpers call behind.

Flop is

checks to original raiser who bets $70

I flat, Villain calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn

Villain lead pots for $310, PFR folds, I call.

I decide that when Villain lead pots turn like this into 2 other players, it's pretty much always 9Txx or 9Txx with spades. So with that in mind I think shoving the turn is pretty bad. I think also if he has 9Txx with no re-draws there are a lot of rivers I can bluff as well.

River

Villain checks. I think for a bit and pot all in for $600ish.

This river seems like one of the best cards for me to bluff when he checks. Thoughts?

600+310+70+20=,1000
edit: nevermind I was thinking about it while taking a shower and I'm not sure now , 8am here I need to sleep

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
281,040 trials (Exhaustive)
board: Kd8s7c6s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
9dTd8h2h 45.16% 0 253,808
9T 54.84% 27,232 253,808


edited with right board

River bet is more like 2/3 of the pot. I'd like your plan if you had an actual PSB or possibly slightly more to bet on the river, but if it really is only 600 in 900 left, shoving the turn is much better, while he usually had T9 there is also a decent chance he doesn't, in which case you are slightly ahead and he will probably outplay you on river.

Seems silly to defend this kind of hand against a good competent reg.

I guess you are bluffing to try to get him off a split....but I think if you go through the step of seeing things from his point of view, I don't think you have many strong hands at all.

On May 29 2013 16:06 mnj wrote: Seems silly to defend this kind of hand against a good competent reg. I guess you are bluffing to try to get him off a split....but I think if you go through the step of seeing things from his point of view, I don't think you have many strong hands at all.

folding pre from the button is terribad
and obviously he can have a lot of strong hands river.
wtf do you even play omaha ? Oo

for nlhe : 95o vs top 100% : 42% vs 58%
.................. vs top 10% : 27.5% vs 72.5%

for plo : T98ss vs top 100% : 50% vs 50%
....................vs top 10% : 41% vs 59%

definitely not the same no.
against this vilain 3b > fold > call but I never fold in a live game this hand where ppl have absolutely no clue how to play omaha.

On May 31 2013 14:05 waga wrote: I never fold in a live game this hand where ppl have absolutely no clue how to play omaha.

I think this is the single most important advice to playing PLO live, especially if the game is very passive (happens often, at least in my experience). You can see flops so cheaply and just get away if you're non-(near)nutted.

Never folding this hand pre in a deep live game, almost always 3b or calling and in this spot probably calling. As played I love the shove. It's a win/win as either u win the pot or if he calls its a great image builder and you get paid later.

Btw I expect him to call and always call in this spot or fold and always fold in this spot. Live PLO players fall into these categories most of the time

Haha didn't mean to confuse you Lex

On May 21 2013 17:58 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I would fold this hand pre. Ur potential high hands and potential low hands are both not that strong.

On May 21 2013 18:01 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I've only played limit omaha H/L but in a ring game, i think you can be very selective preflop with hands alot of the time. Its probably really important to be drawing to clean lows

I pretty much had this in mind when I read OP. Would love to read more PLO8 spots if you come across more