Ranges in uNL?

I managed to get myself stacked two times tonight by attempting to put my opponents on ranges. The most recent I had KK, and a guy cold called my 3bet with J4o. The flop came down 244, so I felt confident that I had the best hand and played it as if I did.

Another I had pocket aces, had my 4bet called with 56o, the flop came up 747 and he checked. Feeling pretty good I made a pot size bet.

I'm really not sure what I should be doing differently here. How do you play when a player represents something completely unreasonable and WAY out of their range? Both of these players were playing super nitty from what I saw up till that point. Is it just a good idea to just always assume the player has the hand they are representing at micro limits no matter how unlikely and with no regard to how they've been playing for the previous 100+ hands?

sounds like you need to read the basic guides of no limit holdem before you post on the site asking for help like this.

The guides here should probably answer all the questions above; AND MORE!

you have to at least include what all the actions are postflop..

regardless, it was almost certainly fine/correct to stack off in the situations you described. but based on your post it sounds like there's a lot of things wrong or missing from your thought process. use the hand converter to post some hands here and include your street-by-street thought process, you'll get better answers that way.

its true you cant put ppl on ranges, just make strong hands bet them big dont make any big bluffs or folds dont call light to raises and vbet alot ant ull do well

It's just frustrating when I seem to be doing alright, getting my green line tending upward and then get wiped by someone who stood up after 200 hands and let their 8 year old daughter play a hand. I'm usually pretty disciplined about laying down my good hands before I get into trouble, it's just when someone represents a hand that there really is no reasonable excuse for them to have.

If someone is playing 10/8 and never 3bets, then they come out calling a 4bet with low unsuited connectors or one gaps how do I proceed. Should I just get my money in good and then fold to aggression, even if they represent a hand that they shouldn't have?



I think I understanding how I need to adjust. Let me know if I'm totally out of line here. Even tight players seem to be pretty random pre-flop from time to time, so I should mostly disregard how someone got into the flop and put much more weight on how they represent their hand after the flop. Maybe they got bored or are tilted for whatever reason. If a draw opportunity comes up I obviously need to get money in the middle. By showing aggression I am giving them implied odds to stack off against me if they hit so I can assume that someone will call if they actually have the required drawing hand.

Now what if a card comes up that allows for their straight/flush and I'm oop? The only reasonable option I see is to come out aggressive, then fold to a re-raise. If they call... Check-fold the river, right? Because they wouldn't have called my raise if they had missed, they would have folded or re-raised trying to bluff.

In position against a drawing hand on the river, just fold immediately to any if they appear to have hit their card. If they check, I bet and fold to a raise. If they call my bet they are probably trying to slow play and suck me out, look for the next opportunity to fold or take the showdown for free.

Other adjustment is easy... Always fold over pair if there is a pair on the board unless I have a really good reason to believe they don't have the three of a kind. Just fold to any aggression and don't play over-pair out of position. I don't know what I was thinking last night.


Am I making any errors in my reasoning here?

On March 21 2013 09:45 RippDrive wrote: It's just frustrating when I seem to be doing alright, getting my green line tending upward and then get wiped by someone who stood up after 200 hands and let their 8 year old daughter play a hand. I'm usually pretty disciplined about laying down my good hands before I get into trouble, it's just when someone represents a hand that there really is no reasonable excuse for them to have. If someone is playing 10/8 and never 3bets, then they come out calling a 4bet with low unsuited connectors or one gaps how do I proceed. Should I just get my money in good and then fold to aggression, even if they represent a hand that they shouldn't have?

Some of the things you're saying are inherently contradictory...For example, the villain in your KK hand who cold-called your 3-bet: you described him as super nitty, but you seem to be implying he was repping a 4 on the 244 flop. If someone is actually very tight over a decent sample size, there is literally no action they can take that "represents a 4". If he calls you he is repping some kind of pocket pair or a float. if he raises you he is repping some kind of pocket pair or a bluff (or 22/quads). This is why you need to post actual hands....

nits do sometimes spazz or tilt (especially at micros), but you should also mention what your sample size with them is, because there's a good chance you're over-valuing the significance of small samples. i'll be the first person to say stats are overrated, but basic VPIP/PFR over a decent sample is generally pretty reliable/useful.

I think I understanding how I need to adjust. Let me know if I'm totally out of line here. Even tight players seem to be pretty random pre-flop from time to time, so I should mostly disregard how someone got into the flop and put much more weight on how they represent their hand after the flop. Maybe they got bored or are tilted for whatever reason. If a draw opportunity comes up I obviously need to get money in the middle. By showing aggression I am giving them implied odds to stack off against me if they hit so I can assume that someone will call if they actually have the required drawing hand. Now what if a card comes up that allows for their straight/flush and I'm oop? The only reasonable option I see is to come out aggressive, then fold to a re-raise. If they call... Check-fold the river, right? Because they wouldn't have called my raise if they had missed, they would have folded or re-raised trying to bluff. In position against a drawing hand on the river, just fold immediately to any if they appear to have hit their card. If they check, I bet and fold to a raise. If they call my bet they are probably trying to slow play and suck me out, look for the next opportunity to fold or take the showdown for free. Other adjustment is easy... Always fold over pair if there is a pair on the board unless I have a really good reason to believe they don't have the three of a kind. Just fold to any aggression and don't play over-pair out of position. I don't know what I was thinking last night.

just post real hands, this stuff is too vague and a waste of time. it's like asking "what do i do with overpairs on the river?" without mentioning the board, # of players, actions, etc....

Sorry, I don't have access to those hand histories at the moment. I didn't know that anything short of a hand history was too vague to discuss. Does it really make that much difference if the board comes up with 5c 7h 8d instead of 6s 8d 9h when you are playing AA or KK?

come on man these guys are very knowledgable and giving u impeccable advice for free and its like you try to burn them

what you gave so far wasn't "just short of a hand history" it was missing even the most vital info

I didn't mean to come across rude or indignant though I see how it could be read that way. Let me try again.

If I had the hand histories available right now I would post them, but I don't. I know that would be better but I was hoping I could try to communicate the sorts of situations and am having issues with and get some guidance without them.

You say I'm missing the most vital info, could you expand on that? If I'm not including the most important information it's probably because I don't know it's so important and I'm probably undervaluing it while playing.

just to say 'good nits' have patience, and at lowest stakes there are no good players, so nits spazzing randomly should be no surprise.

bet sizing and the board are super important, just saying "I had AA and he had 56o and flop came 747 and I lost" doesn't tell us much, if I had to guess you played it correctly and I would never fold AA there but the with the whole story we could be of much more help.

747? Time to take flight, all aboard!