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NL200 Live Quick Opinion 600bb pot

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sunnysky7   . Dec 29 2012 01:55. Posts 1549

I'd rather fold the turn, also no matter online or live any decent regs rarely try to bluff off whole stacks on certain board, u can reasonable have a strong range and flat IP slowplay these hands
But against quite aggro/spwey fish this could be a tough spot for sure

 Last edit: 29/12/2012 01:57

Endo   United States. Dec 29 2012 01:58. Posts 953


  On December 29 2012 00:55 sunnysky7 wrote:
I'd rather fold the turn, also no matter online or live any decent regs rarely try to bluff off whole stacks on certain boards, reasonable boats in ur range etc..
But against quite aggro/spwey fish this could be a tough spot for sure



I don't think turn should be a fold...there's way too many draws out there, and even regs at 1/2 I feel are pretttty bad


Rapoza   Brasil. Dec 29 2012 08:10. Posts 1612

--- Nuked ---

Pouncer Style 4 the win 

waga   United Kingdom. Dec 29 2012 12:03. Posts 2375


  He's also holding his cards in one hand, slightly tilted, almost like he's ready to instamuck if I fold.



lol snapfold


Endo   United States. Dec 29 2012 15:12. Posts 953


  On December 28 2012 21:08 Fayth wrote:
if you ain't going to play this for stacks u'd rather check behind turn, as played it's prob a fold



Fayth, I was thinking about this after you posted it yesterday. If you check behind on the turn every time this situation comes up, aren't you just burning money? I feel you're going to be ahead of the turn a vast majority of the time, but not necessarily the river. If I check turn and bet river on a brick, he's gonna fold all his missed draws, raise trips, and probably call worse aces. Seems I'm in a worse spot off by not putting money in when I'm usually ahead on the turn.


NMcNasty    United States. Dec 30 2012 14:30. Posts 2039


  On December 28 2012 17:19 Endo wrote:
Haven't seen him bluff at all or play for stacks.



Your hand is merely a bluff catcher, so it's a pretty easy fold with the above observation. Check turn, fold turn, don't worry too much about game theory, exploit to the max.


SemPeR   Canada. Dec 30 2012 16:55. Posts 2288

People have commented on the other stuff...just to add something you may not have thought about:

-Raise bigger pre. You're fucking deep. 25-30 isn't a bad idea at 1-2.
I default 5bb+1 per limper, which make this 9bb, or 18. Then I just make it 25 because of how deep we are. The only reason why we don't do this online is because people 3bet, and fish have more of an elastic range facing large preflop raises.
Also, you don't mention stacks behind but there are still 4 players left to act.
You actually ran kinda good here to get it HU.

-I think live villains typically have pretty tight UTG ranges. I give most players I've played under 10 hours with a pretty tight range of PPs, broadways, and strong aces here. I think guys can show up with AK/AQ based on turn (not river) action.
You claim he is wider, so I'll give you that. I think there's a good chance you're wrong though. Lots of regs/recreational players read books these days and play tighter EP, even if they are clueless postflop.
edit to add: its pretty easy after an hour or two with spare showdowns for a guy to look like hes limping wider utg. i think in these situations looking at the guy and how he talks/put chips into the pot helps you make judgements on how loose he might be.

 Last edit: 30/12/2012 16:56

NewbSaibot   United States. Dec 31 2012 00:44. Posts 4943

Dont understand why you cbet. Lets put an imaginary HUD over him that probably consists of 50/30/4 with FCB of 20. Would you ever cbet this person online? When this person goes allin how often are you really calling?

bye now 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 31 2012 23:55. Posts 12435

I would c bet flop vs this player but for all the different reasons you're thinking...I would cbet here merely for value and then try to get to showdown. Would probalby continue barreling off if i pick up a draw on the turn or hit a J/A

probably be very wary of his counter aggression...generally players like this won't just spazz out and put in his stack w J5 here...If i wasn't comfortable playing this for stacks on turn why not just go for 2 streets of value now and check turn and have him hero call river.?

But generally turn is a pretty standard bet but bear in mind that we don't really have that many rivers to be scared of or that would keep us from value betting if we check the turn too. And additionally if we check the turn we will more than likely see his hand more often which can be very beneficial to our future game plan vs him as this will be a spot that comes up very often and we can really turn on the rape

eZ Life. 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 31 2012 23:57. Posts 12435

I also agree with semper...experiment with bet sizing differences preflop. why can't we raise to $40 pre in this spot w AA and just $20 w AJ here? it's not like the live noobs will ever pick up on that...and if they do then start bluffing w $40 raises pre LOL

EXPLOIT THOSE NOOBS

eZ Life. 

Endo   United States. Jan 01 2013 14:34. Posts 953


  On December 31 2012 22:55 YoMeR wrote:
I would c bet flop vs this player but for all the different reasons you're thinking...I would cbet here merely for value and then try to get to showdown. Would probalby continue barreling off if i pick up a draw on the turn or hit a J/A

probably be very wary of his counter aggression...generally players like this won't just spazz out and put in his stack w J5 here...If i wasn't comfortable playing this for stacks on turn why not just go for 2 streets of value now and check turn and have him hero call river.?

But generally turn is a pretty standard bet but bear in mind that we don't really have that many rivers to be scared of or that would keep us from value betting if we check the turn too. And additionally if we check the turn we will more than likely see his hand more often which can be very beneficial to our future game plan vs him as this will be a spot that comes up very often and we can really turn on the rape



That's pretty good, I like the explanation of the turn check.

I was planning on just betting 3 streets and him crying calling with a pair on river, but I can see why slowing down might be better if I'm not willing to play for stacks here.


Endo   United States. Jan 01 2013 14:38. Posts 953

Results, if you're curious:

+ Show Spoiler +

 Last edit: 01/01/2013 14:39

NewbSaibot   United States. Jan 02 2013 00:40. Posts 4943


  On January 01 2013 13:38 Endo wrote:
Results, if you're curious:

+ Show Spoiler +


This is why I dont like cbetting flop, b/c it gives us a chance to get to the river more cheaply. Obv Yomer's line has merit, but I think requires more skill to execute. Since I'm playing NL200 like NL2 I figure it's the safer, easier option. When they're a mega station/maniac , just play exploitably and check it back.

bye now 

JonnyCosMo   United States. Jan 02 2013 16:34. Posts 7292


  On January 01 2013 23:40 NewbSaibot wrote:
Show nested quote +

This is why I dont like cbetting flop, b/c it gives us a chance to get to the river more cheaply. Obv Yomer's line has merit, but I think requires more skill to execute. Since I'm playing NL200 like NL2 I figure it's the safer, easier option. When they're a mega station/maniac , just play exploitably and check it back.


Vs these types of players your decision should be on the turn. Don't mind bet/folding the turn, but hate calling in hopes that he doesn't barrel through. As played, i snap call river. Checking behind turn is ok if you haven't done it before, but it's kind of a bad habit to get into, and you will be losing lots of value in the long run. Betting flop should be standard for thin value / to help define opponents hand, absolutely hate checking vs these tards, if you keep barreling him in these spots eventually he's going to hang himself.

Just keep these things in mind: if he's actually a good aggro player, because he showed you this bluff, he is less likely to pull this crap again on you or anyone else at the table who saw. So your adjustment can't really be to just start calling him down lighter, that's what he is hoping for. Don't adjust to be a passive bitch either or start pot controlling everything, just keep betting these spots and daring him to do it again.

Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUserLast edit: 02/01/2013 16:36

NewbSaibot   United States. Jan 02 2013 18:03. Posts 4943

So when you hope to define his hand with a cbet, it isnt meant to work in situations where he's on a stone cold bluff like this time right? It was simply unfortunate that hero got blindsighted with top pair. Be that as it may, you said it's good to keep barreling so he'll hang himself, but at the same time we shouldnt expect him to run big bluffs after this again? See thats where I get confused, determining when I have a bluff catcher when villain should be avoiding any big bluffs for quite some time.

bye now 

4TM   United States. Jan 04 2013 18:40. Posts 712

Cosmo is spot on...bet folding on turn/rivers in live games is srsly the nuts in most spots. you just don't get exploited often enough

yomer on this fish's computer btw


Endo   United States. Jan 04 2013 19:35. Posts 953

I'm pretty sure I still like betting flop in position with a hand like AJ, maybe checking if I hold KJs. (i'm folding if he checkraises, which I haven't seen him done yet)

I think our hand is fairly disguised on turn, since it's an excellent bluff card to double barrel on and there's too many draws to fold to.

But it's interesting to think that river should be an automatic call if I call turn, even when that 9 hits a lot of draws...


casinocasino   Canada. Feb 01 2013 06:27. Posts 3343

wow he played it so incredibly bad....

its a very standard check back on the turn here btw.


Endo   United States. Feb 02 2013 23:25. Posts 953


  On February 01 2013 05:27 casinocasino wrote:
wow he played it so incredibly bad....

its a very standard check back on the turn here btw.



First time I saw him go completely nuts with air, so I definitely wasn't expecting that to be part of his range.

It's ok- I ended up a 4 figure winner anyways =P


YoMeR   United States. Feb 26 2013 17:04. Posts 12435

also just a thought...won't NL200 live hands be in the low stakes section? it's like playing .01/.02 online

eZ Life. 

 
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