AQ Nl200 vs UTG

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You've gotta give us some image stuff to go on here for a hand like this. The 3bet could have been really bad. If the 3bet was good, then I think shoving the river is best, and the only reason I would check it were if I had a read that it was to snap off someone who turns 9T into a bluff a LOT.

On November 22 2012 15:04 Oly wrote: You've gotta give us some image stuff to go on here for a hand like this. The 3bet could have been really bad. If the 3bet was good, then I think shoving the river is best, and the only reason I would check it were if I had a read that it was to snap off someone who turns 9T into a bluff a LOT.

Qft

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yeah bet flop, c/c turn, c/f river is best line here
bet flop, bet turn, c/f river is best as played but much worse

On November 25 2012 08:40 Minsk wrote: yeah bet flop, c/c turn, c/f river is best line here bet flop, bet turn, c/f river is best as played but much worse

if this is the best line, stop 3-betting AQ, because it's completley backwards logic

only reason to check turn is to check shove

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On November 25 2012 22:28 TalentedTom wrote: if this is the best line, stop 3-betting AQ, because it's completley backwards logic

/nod

only reason to check turn is to check shove

why?

ive been trying to weigh c/c vs c/s and it seems like

- c/c seems a little better in theory(turn vacuum), but also puts our range into a weird faceup river spot (cant have air/hardly any draws) we will make more river mistakes than villain - seems hard to balance (we have to be c/c stronger hands than aq here to c/c aq, and dont know if we want to)

- seems a little worse in theory(turn vacuum) [shouldnt get called by worse?] but never make mistakes on river and no need for any c/c range
~ (do we want to play bluffs this way or barell range v range?) seems like a reasonable 2 barell spot and most draws are weak equity vs ax+ so it kind of makes sense to 2barell bluff more than c/s
~ we can have some bluffs in our c/s range but not many i think (want to know which are better for betting turn and which better for c/s)
~ how wide do you consider c/s turn for value?

~ basically seems more important to c/s vs c/c in relation to the amount of mistakes we will make on river (the more predictable villain the closer to c/c)

No, just think about his preflop calling range to our 3 bets. There are some assumptions we have to make in order for our 3 bet to be good here. Basically all our assumptions for 3 betting pre, is that villain will defend light, and we will be able to stack him. As oly pointed out, if he is defending tight, then we are burning money.

Read what Tom had to say, about backwards logic

we arent talking about the 3b everyone agrees its backwards, its about how to play turn/river as played

Check calling turn is fine. u definitely need hands to c/c on the turn that also call rivers to protect your hands u check.

For your 3bet with AQ to be right, you should be happy with snapping here. If not, you shouldn't be 3betting pre

I like 3bet - cb - cc - cc - unless hes a complete nit on riv etc.

you've trapped yourself.

your flop and turn sizing are both far too large

On November 25 2012 22:30 TalentedTom wrote: only reason to check turn is to check shove

lol is that right?

^^ no, but for the sake of this hand , yes