HU Donkleading Ranges

Basic HU Theory question:

How should I look to construct a good default leading range readless in the following situations:
-Readless against a regular 100bb deep, raising 60-80% otb.
-Readless against a fish 50bb deep, in limped pots.
We're flatting Q7+, lots of suited gappers, 65o+.

I know a lot of this depends on flatting ranges and how they'll react to you, but hopefully we'll get some good discussion.
Some questions to get things going:
Answer/read however much you want. I've been told I type too much sometimes. But yeah any ideas to help me think about this better would be welcome.
+ Show Spoiler +

Happy Tuesday,
Semp

just remembered a few dudes might not be on the same page as me about bb flatting readless.

I read mers' book on husng.com and while its not for cash, I felt he had some really good fundamentals laid about about bb play

i only donk as a bluff when readless nowadays. well, ok like 67 or 66 on 876 u kinda have to donk cuz u dont have any other option besides c/c i guess--i'd be way more apt to c/c those vs a reg than a fish tho. but for the most part just all bluffs and i chk way more than i lead.

2007 - leading was good for value cuz everybody c-bet too much and expected u to expect them to c-bet, when u lead into them, u induce them to bluff raise.

2009 - ppl learned to chk back flops more often, which ones to do it and why--also maybe some started to chk too often. so u gotta start leading to keep them from constantly chking behind.

2012 - most ppl r pretty well balanced as far as c-betting ranges, some chk behind more often than others, those r the guys u have to lead more against.

I do donkbet sometimes, but I do most of the time when I know I'm getting owned by playing my standard vs someone miniraising 100% BTN
so as the ranges are much much wider ( I think I defend my BB around 60~70% vs miniraising ) is much easier to play by having the initiative postflop, not sure why

I know there's some players who use it a lot, I do remember 0Human0 using it in a few videos, but honestly I never read any theory about it

drone: care to give us an idea of what your standard is? don't give anything away that you don't want to of course. maybe an example of an opponent in recent history and a rough description of what he was doing to give you a hard time.
(what kind of stuff do you lead normally?)


my donkleading is pretty limited but I can think of clear spots where it is better.
-where villain has a wide cbing range and we're not sure we can own him with c/c OOP, or c/r (he won't fold his wide range).
Donklead instead just to win the pot. He *should* realize pretty fast that either or checking or donking range is stronger, and exploit us, but most people don't and just like fold to one (backdoor aggro on future streets, or a donklead).
I dont think I do this enough AT ALL, especially against fish who are easy to figure out and don't adjust much once you've done so.

-leading medium equity that doesn't play that well c/cing on semiwet boards to overbet the turn when called.
-straight value vs fish (just a matter of deciding if betting is better than checking)

made a big post and lost it, fuck

I do use vs fishs for straight value and shit or vs regs that doesn't cbet enough, I think this is pretty basic and I don't think is need to explain

what I said before, I donkbet when getting owned vs a 100% miniraising reg who plays decent postflop:

I don't know how to rationalize it, because I never read any theory and never wrote anything about it
so probably there's a lot of holes and mistakes in what I do

when playing vs someone opening 100% small blind, we know that we have to defend a lot
if we defend 60%, we will have hands like J4s, Q6s, 64s, K5o etc a lot of garbage in out range
so we won't flop enough made hands that we can confortably check raise for value, we will flop a lot of botton pairs, no kicker and shit

so we have two options(besides of donkbetting or start a preflop war), we can start to check calling those hands, because we will have a lot of hands that will be in the "standard check/calling range" so we will play very passive oop which sucks

or we can start widening our check raising value range to some weakish top pairs, or midpairs+gutshots, because if we don't do it, we won't check raise enough, or our check raising range will be unbalanced bluff heavy
I think the second option is better if you are confident in your hand reading skills, but honestly I don't feel good doing it much especially because of the variance

so I prefer to donkbet in this case, I think villain will start making a lot more mistakes because he usually doesn't face donkbets coming from a decent thinking player
my donkbetting range will vary, depending on how the villain is adapting, most of the time their range will be unbalanced, like raising a lot when they can't rep a hand they would be raising, so in this case we can have a polarized donkbetting range, etc

ofc there will be some standard good spots to donkbet, I'm too lazy to filter hands and explain, but I picked one

+ Show Spoiler +

I can't checkraise this flop because I won't rep much made hands, so my c/r range will be bluff heavy, plus I won't win much money by check raising when he folds, the pot is really small because he miniraised, if he calls my check-raise, I will be kinda lost, because he can easily slowplay in this board, plus I don't know if he will calls with some random 94o, or if he realizes I can't rep much value hands and decides to shove over on the turn with 2 overcards or something

check call sucks because people realize I can't have much and they will barrel a lot and I don't have any SD value so I will be burning money by check calling here

after I donkbet, as I have the initiative postflop, my range can be wider, so it's like inverted positions, he can't raise ( as I couldn't check raise ) because of all the reasons I gave before on why I don't like to check raise or check call

he can't call much because he won't have much ahnds with SD value too, and I will be tripple barreling a lot after I donkbet the flop, so even if he calls with some random pocket fours or 5x, he will have a hard time playing passive
so, when he raises, his range will be unbalanced ( ofc unless he starts to raising 89o type of hands here and stacking off which I don't think it happens too often, plus I don't think it's good since my range looks like a monster and there isn't much draws out there )

ofc in this spot I will be donkbetting value hands like some 9x that I'll be stacking off with

maybe as a general strategy i'd tighten up a bit OOP vs a readless opponent...but that's just me.

can't see flatting stuff like 65o OOP profitable at all without knowing anything about villain.

and even if we did know why are we flatting these hands pf? I think the discussion should clearly be what would be the optimal pf calling range vs a btn raise. and we can go more in depth and adjust according to raise sizing (2xbb 2.5xbb 3xbb 3.5+xbb) etc

might be a more productive just saying.

when someone minraises you have to defend wide, at least 50%, or villain will instantly profit even if he check folds every flop
you don't need to be profitable, just lose less on the BB, if you fold you loses -1bb per hand ( or -50ptbb/100 which is a lot )

I think 65o is a bad hand to be calling with even vs someone who open 100% minraise at the SB ( you have 40% equity vs ATC with 65o )

other things I should've said about why I like to donkbet vs 100% minraises is because it's weird to 3bet light, or 3bet size will be smaller, they will 4bet lighter and you can't 5bet shove because you are getting terrible odds to that

SB raises 2bb
Hero 3bets to 7bb
SB 4bets to 17bb
Hero 5bet Shoves 100bb ???

villain in this case can be playing extremelly tight in his calling range because of the awesome odds we are giving to him
if we call the 4bet, he will be playing IP with the initiative in a pretty decent pot size to steal ( which it's way easier IP )

if we 5bet smaller, villain can be 6bet shoving getting awesome odds

villain won't "instantly profit" unless you keep folding your own sb

he will instantly profit in that spot, when he is the SB