[POLL]Your religion? - Page 18

On August 19 2012 09:47 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: I would yes, in fact I would not have any choice. Actually, you would have a choice. Just as you have now when I ask you to say to yourself "I am fucking disgusting". Even given your premise that there is a God he still chose to give you the choice. You just told me that if you believed the creator of the universe were telling you to murder your own child you would. You would feel obligated to do as they wish, no questions asked, without any pause for morality or ethics. You would do what most of us would die rather than admit, to and murder a child, and who knows what more. You would feel as if you "had no choice" but to do it. You are fucking disgusting. Now I know where to find these psychopaths that keep hearing voices telling them to kill children and actually go through with it before they do it. On LP convincing themselves that they are abject slaves free of all responsibility as they have no choices.

You are a delusional individual. IF God exists and IF he REALLY wanted me to do it, and IF he was all powerfull THEN I can do nothing else. It is not about morals or ethics you fool, it is simple logic.

On August 19 2012 09:54 Zorglub wrote: You are a delusional individual. IF God exists and IF he REALLY wanted me to do it, and IF he was all powerfull THEN I can do nothing else. It is not about morals or ethics you fool, it is simple logic.

IF God existed and ASKED YOU TO DO IT WAS THE QUESTION.

I asked if YOU would do it WHEN HE ASKED. The question is not "If God forcibly moved your body to kill the child with it", that would be a fucking stupid question.

I asked if you would kill your own child if God asked you to and you said you WOULD.
You WOULD fulfill this immoral and fucking disgusting request without pause. Even knowing that this God has a black sense of humor.

And to your retarded "simple logic" sentiment: IF God exists and IF he REALLY wanted that kid dead he would have not created it at all or killed it himself you disgusting idiot.
Your justification is bad and you should feel bad because you are fucking disgusting.

On August 19 2012 10:06 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 09:54 Zorglub wrote: You are a delusional individual. IF God exists and IF he REALLY wanted me to do it, and IF he was all powerfull THEN I can do nothing else. It is not about morals or ethics you fool, it is simple logic. IF God existed and ASKED YOU TO DO IT WAS THE QUESTION. I asked if YOU would do it WHEN HE ASKED. The question is not "If God forcibly moved your body to kill the child with it", that would be a fucking stupid question. I asked if you would kill your own child if God asked you to and you said you WOULD. You WOULD fulfill this immoral and fucking disgusting request without pause. Even knowing that this God has a black sense of humor. And to your retarded "simple logic" sentiment: IF God exists and IF he REALLY wanted that kid dead he would have not created it at all or killed it himself you disgusting idiot. Your justification is bad and you should feel bad because you are fucking disgusting.

If he asked me to do it and gave me the choice he would not really want me to do it, because if he really wanted me to do it he would not give me the choice not to do it. I am sorry you are too retarded to understand simple logic, you should feel bad because you are so stupid and blame others for your own ignorance. Good luck out there!

On August 19 2012 10:11 Zorglub wrote: If he asked me to do it and gave me the choice he would not really want me to do it

So now you pick and choose what God does? Even theoretical ones? What an amazing power.

Also: Your retarded way of thinking has convinced you that God is incapable of giving someone a choice.

He can do everything when it's convenient for you but then not a second later he's incapable of giving you a choice.

On August 19 2012 10:49 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 10:11 Zorglub wrote: If he asked me to do it and gave me the choice he would not really want me to do it So now you pick and choose what God does? Even theoretical ones? What an amazing power. Also: Your retarded way of thinking has convinced you that God is incapable of giving someone a choice. He can do everything when it's convenient for you but then not a second later he's incapable of giving you a choice.

You seem incapable of understanding even simple things. The man can do and make me do whatever he wants, he does not have to ask me anything. If he wanted me to kill the child he would simply have made me kill the child, he would not ask me to do it so I had the chance to say no. If there is a chance that I will not do it, I can say for sure that an omnipotent God would not want me to do it, just because that chance exists. If he really wanted me to do it, the chance for me not doing it would not exist.

So wait, is this a thread about semantics or religion lol.

edit:

I'm trying to stfu but you're really making hard Taco lol.

first thing, can you really not understand where Zorglub is coming from ?

In your hypothetical situation, is it not assumed that the god asking will be zorglubs idea of god ?

Because if not, there are no parameters to go by and the answer would be useless. A hypothetical needs to be clear and cut. I hope i'm not fucking up any grammatics and that you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Now from what I can gather, Zorglubs idea of god is as an omnipotent and benevolent one.
So his HYPOTHETICAL answer makes sense and like he said, morals and ethics, as far as this hypothetical question goes, have nothing to do with it.

Second thing is, you can argue that religion is a way for psychos to manifest, which is true, but so are other things.

Leading figures who decide it's fine to lie to the ones who chose them to lead? Cop brutality? Corporations willing to indirectly kill or let suffer for profit? Soldiers going wild in an occupied country? Drug cartels injecting the opposition's kids with battery acid ? People who decide it's a good idea to shoot up a bunch of random people? That belgian kid that stabbed a bunch of toddlers at a childcare centre ?

What i'm trying to say is psychos gonna psycho, and when one does on the "influence" of religion, you can't really blame it on that. I mean you could, but you'd be missing a large part of the picture.

Now you might wanna argue that religion actually creates psychos, but that is another point all together, not to mention the same could be said about a many great number of other "things".

Also ppl, calling each other names doesn't help anyone

On August 19 2012 09:47 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: I would yes, in fact I would not have any choice. Actually, you would have a choice. Just as you have now when I ask you to say to yourself "I am fucking disgusting". Even given your premise that there is a God he still chose to give you the choice. You just told me that if you believed the creator of the universe were telling you to murder your own child you would. You would feel obligated to do as they wish, no questions asked, without any pause for morality or ethics. You would do what most of us would die rather than admit, to and murder a child, and who knows what more. You would feel as if you "had no choice" but to do it. You are fucking disgusting. Now I know where to find these psychopaths that keep hearing voices telling them to kill children and actually go through with it before they do it. On LP convincing themselves that they are abject slaves free of all responsibility as they have no choices.

Actually the one thing that Zorglub is probably right about is the ridiculously simplifying -widely spread by christianity- concept of free will; one of the main reasons that such an idea is so easily adopted is because it makes people feel better about pointing fingers and feeling better about themselves, sort of like you do with your above post, Taco. The tone of your post implies that free will is self evident, so humor me with your compelling arguments missed by several philosophical monsters throughout history.

On August 19 2012 11:13 Zorglub wrote: You seem incapable of understanding even simple things. The man can do and make me do whatever he wants, he does not have to ask me anything. If he wanted me to kill the child he would simply have made me kill the child, he would not ask me to do it so I had the chance to say no. If there is a chance that I will not do it, I can say for sure that an omnipotent God would not want me to do it, just because that chance exists. If he really wanted me to do it, the chance for me not doing it would not exist.

In this theoretical question God has a black sense of humor.

Why the fuck do I keep repeating this? Is this important? I'll answer both of those questions for you Zorglub:

Yes. It is one of the most important aspects of God brought up in the question. Nobody, nothing, can have a sense of humor without being
completely arbitrary. If you have a black sense of humor you absolutely have the ability and characteristics
to arbitrarily do things to see what will happen.

You keep repeating that if God exists that he simply is everything and everything that will happens will and there is no escaping that whatsoever
and that he is therefore incapable of merely asking you to do something without you doing it.

This is not only false - but even if he knew what would happen he might still ask you to do something without having any interest
in actually performing the act himself. And before you say "Of course he would know what would happen anyway" - Why would he run this .exe that is the universe
if he already knew what would happen? That even conscious beings could not elude him? Exactly. There would be no fucking point.

But of course you only want things and their logical implications to be considered when it's convenient for you.

On August 19 2012 13:29 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 11:13 Zorglub wrote: You seem incapable of understanding even simple things. The man can do and make me do whatever he wants, he does not have to ask me anything. If he wanted me to kill the child he would simply have made me kill the child, he would not ask me to do it so I had the chance to say no. If there is a chance that I will not do it, I can say for sure that an omnipotent God would not want me to do it, just because that chance exists. If he really wanted me to do it, the chance for me not doing it would not exist. In this theoretical question God has a black sense of humor. Why the fuck do I keep repeating this? Is this important? I'll answer both of those questions for you Zorglub: Yes. It is one of the most important aspects of God brought up in the question. Nobody, nothing, can have a sense of humor without being completely arbitrary. If you have a black sense of humor you absolutely have the ability and characteristics to arbitrarily do things to see what will happen. You keep repeating that if God exists that he simply is everything and everything that will happens will and there is no escaping that whatsoever and that he is therefore incapable of merely asking you to do something without you doing it. This is not only false - but even if he knew what would happen he might still ask you to do something without having any interest in actually performing the act himself. And before you say "Of course he would know what would happen anyway" - Why would he run this .exe that is the universe if he already knew what would happen? That even conscious beings could not elude him? Exactly. There would be no fucking point. But of course you only want things and their logical implications to be considered when it's convenient for you.

I dont think I understand where you are comming from. To me a black sense of humor has nothing to do with arbitrarity, it has to do with wits and intelligence applied in respect to the recievers knowledge. It is about twisting a situation to the point of absurdity. Where does the arbitrary concept come into the picture?

He could ask me to do something but why should he when he could just make me do it and even if he asked me, he would still know exactly what I would choose.

He would run the universe so he could experience it as you and I.

On August 19 2012 14:12 Zorglub wrote: He would run the universe so he could experience it as you and I.

Yet he would not feel curiosity because it is not convenient for you, Childslayer?

On August 19 2012 14:21 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 14:12 Zorglub wrote: He would run the universe so he could experience it as you and I. Yet he would not feel curiosity because it is not convenient for you, Childslayer?

If you know everything you would probably have to deliberatly forget some of it, in order to be curious. Dont you think?

He made the universe, he made the child, he could slay anything he wanted to, as "me". In the end he would only be slaying himself or his own illusions. Do you get it?

You are too late, I dont have a guilty conscience any more, I can only laugh about the concept.

On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself?

Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense.

If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss."

On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss."

Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time.

There is no negative, bad, evil etc. They only exist because you think something is positive, better, good etc. If you dont think in this dual way, there will be no bad, good, morals etc. There simply is experience and change, nothing else.

Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change.

On August 19 2012 13:11 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 09:47 taco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: I would yes, in fact I would not have any choice. Actually, you would have a choice. Just as you have now when I ask you to say to yourself "I am fucking disgusting". Even given your premise that there is a God he still chose to give you the choice. You just told me that if you believed the creator of the universe were telling you to murder your own child you would. You would feel obligated to do as they wish, no questions asked, without any pause for morality or ethics. You would do what most of us would die rather than admit, to and murder a child, and who knows what more. You would feel as if you "had no choice" but to do it. You are fucking disgusting. Now I know where to find these psychopaths that keep hearing voices telling them to kill children and actually go through with it before they do it. On LP convincing themselves that they are abject slaves free of all responsibility as they have no choices. Actually the one thing that Zorglub is probably right about is the ridiculously simplifying -widely spread by christianity- concept of free will; one of the main reasons that such an idea is so easily adopted is because it makes people feel better about pointing fingers and feeling better about themselves, sort of like you do with your above post, Taco. The tone of your post implies that free will is self evident, so humor me with your compelling arguments missed by several philosophical monsters throughout history.

At this point in history it is not even necessary to bring up philosophers on the topic of free will. Free will is absolutely impossible according to modern science. People just clearly don't want to deal with the implications.

On August 19 2012 14:51 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss." Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time. Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change.

So you would rather live through Prometheus' punishment for an eternity than have no experience at all? And you expect anyone with intelligence to believe that? Well actually let's take an example that is other than mythological so that people can see what you really are saying here. You would still consider yourself "a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is for an eternity" if you were this guy who has locked-in syndrome and has been recently refused the right to assisted suicide? You "would just, one more time, enjoy the experience for an eternity?"

"Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change."

That's nice, and I'm sure you'd change the world but you would still need help to empty your pee bag, empty your bowels, wash you and feed you and dress you, among many other things. I doubt with any amount of self-delusion you may have your world would be very positive from your own perspective.

I'm almost convinced now that marveling over this cesspool of a world with locked-in syndrome is surely better than nothing, thanks.

On August 19 2012 14:59 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 14:51 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss." Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time. Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change. So you would rather live through Prometheus' punishment for an eternity than have no experience at all? And you expect anyone with intelligence to believe that? Well actually let's take an example that is other than mythological so that people can see what you really are saying here. You would still consider yourself "a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is for an eternity" if you were this guy who has locked-in syndrome and has been recently refused the right to assisted suicide? You "would just, one more time, enjoy the experience for an eternity?"

If I never felt or thought that something was better, I would not know I was being punished. it would simply be "existence" for me. If I was born in a lake of fire, that would be normal for me, and if I never felt or imagined anything else as "better" I would think nothing of it, it would not even be a punishment, it would just be normal or "existence".

On August 19 2012 15:08 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 14:59 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:51 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss." Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time. Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change. So you would rather live through Prometheus' punishment for an eternity than have no experience at all? And you expect anyone with intelligence to believe that? Well actually let's take an example that is other than mythological so that people can see what you really are saying here. You would still consider yourself "a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is for an eternity" if you were this guy who has locked-in syndrome and has been recently refused the right to assisted suicide? You "would just, one more time, enjoy the experience for an eternity?" If I never felt or thought that something was better, I would not know I was being punished. it would simply be "existence" for me. If I was born in a lake of fire, that would be normal for me, and if I never felt or imagined anything else as "better" I would think nothing of it, it would not even be a punishment, it would just be normal or "existence".

Cool. Any thoughts on the part about the guy with almost complete body paralysis who used to enjoy being able to move his body? That's just one possibility that you could end up repeating for eternity isn't it? So you'd be excited to be him and "experience", right?

On August 19 2012 15:12 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 15:08 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:59 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:51 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss." Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time. Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change. So you would rather live through Prometheus' punishment for an eternity than have no experience at all? And you expect anyone with intelligence to believe that? Well actually let's take an example that is other than mythological so that people can see what you really are saying here. You would still consider yourself "a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is for an eternity" if you were this guy who has locked-in syndrome and has been recently refused the right to assisted suicide? You "would just, one more time, enjoy the experience for an eternity?" If I never felt or thought that something was better, I would not know I was being punished. it would simply be "existence" for me. If I was born in a lake of fire, that would be normal for me, and if I never felt or imagined anything else as "better" I would think nothing of it, it would not even be a punishment, it would just be normal or "existence". Cool. Any thoughts on the part about the guy with almost complete body paralysis who used to enjoy being able to move his body? That's just one possibility that you could end up repeating for eternity isn't it? So you'd be excited to be him and "experience", right?

that's Cruz the guy is actually just tricked by god to think he's paralyzed. Havant u been following the discussion?

On August 19 2012 15:12 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 15:08 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:59 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:51 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss." Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time. Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change. So you would rather live through Prometheus' punishment for an eternity than have no experience at all? And you expect anyone with intelligence to believe that? Well actually let's take an example that is other than mythological so that people can see what you really are saying here. You would still consider yourself "a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is for an eternity" if you were this guy who has locked-in syndrome and has been recently refused the right to assisted suicide? You "would just, one more time, enjoy the experience for an eternity?" If I never felt or thought that something was better, I would not know I was being punished. it would simply be "existence" for me. If I was born in a lake of fire, that would be normal for me, and if I never felt or imagined anything else as "better" I would think nothing of it, it would not even be a punishment, it would just be normal or "existence". Cool. Any thoughts on the part about the guy with almost complete body paralysis who used to enjoy being able to move his body? That's just one possibility that you could end up repeating for eternity isn't it? So you'd be excited to be him and "experience", right?

Maybe that is why nothing is permanent and lives end at some point, so you will never end up in a permanent bad experience. Instead you can start another experience?

On August 19 2012 15:21 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 15:12 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 15:08 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:59 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:51 Zorglub wrote:   On August 19 2012 14:40 Loco wrote:   On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 08:58 taco wrote: [QUOTE]On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote: This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself? Quite obviously, yes. Why does anything at all have to be better than nothing? I never understood this mentality, which is obviously the norm. A permanent negative state is better than nothing? Why is that? And why are there so many suicides, then? Nonsense, that's why. No one would prefer to live like Prometheus instead of stopping to exist. Our Sisyphus lives are only possible through keeping up some self-delusion, including life-affirmation through Nietzsche's eternal recurrence nonsense. If someone wakes up to being the slave of some higher being and his first thought is "hey this is better than nothing, I am experiencing slavery!" then he is an idiot, sorry to say. I do believe that we are all puppets, but unlike you I find nothing redeeming about it and see non-existence as clearly preferable. "No want is the greatest bliss." Obviously that is what you percieve. We are individuals, you might prefer nothing, I don't. Maybe the permanent negative state is comming from yourself or the way you percieve the world. I am no slave, I am a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is to experience for an eternity. And when I have experienced it all, I simply forget that I have experienced it, and enjoy the experience one more time. Someone once said if you change the way you percieve the world, the world will change. So you would rather live through Prometheus' punishment for an eternity than have no experience at all? And you expect anyone with intelligence to believe that? Well actually let's take an example that is other than mythological so that people can see what you really are saying here. You would still consider yourself "a lucky motherfucker who will be able to experience anything and everything there is for an eternity" if you were this guy who has locked-in syndrome and has been recently refused the right to assisted suicide? You "would just, one more time, enjoy the experience for an eternity?" If I never felt or thought that something was better, I would not know I was being punished. it would simply be "existence" for me. If I was born in a lake of fire, that would be normal for me, and if I never felt or imagined anything else as "better" I would think nothing of it, it would not even be a punishment, it would just be normal or "existence". Cool. Any thoughts on the part about the guy with almost complete body paralysis who used to enjoy being able to move his body? That's just one possibility that you could end up repeating for eternity isn't it? So you'd be excited to be him and "experience", right? Maybe that is why nothing is permanent and lives end at some point, so you will never end up in a permanent bad experience. Instead you can start another experience?

Which part of him allows him to start another experience exactly? He cannot kill himself, he's "locked-in" and he was denied the right to have help to end his life. But anyway, you clearly think his life is worth living don't you? You'd live his life in a heart-beat since anything is better than nothing, isn't it?