On August 18 2012 20:22 uiCk wrote:
but when you said that god already knows all experiences and all knowledge, you are the one creating the boundaries. im the one who says there are no boundaries, you are the one who makes insane amount of contradictions because your trying to explain a belief, to yourself nonetheless
Everything is defined like eternity, unlimited, endless etc. it does not have any limit.
If you know everything you can only experience something "new" by taking on a form which does not know everything. But even the word and concept of contradiction and everything does not really exist, it was also made for us.
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 18 2012 19:46 cariadon wrote:
I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did.
Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame.
If you had the option to know everything that ever happened and ever could happen, or the option of experiencing new stuff and wonder, explore and learn instead, which one would you choose? The one who knows everything can never experience something new or be surprised.
Personally I am quite satisfied with experiencing, learning and being surprised rather than knowing it all. And I would not trade it for the other option. And besides, as long as you think you make the decision and form your life, it doesn't really matter if you do it or not, because as long as you think you do it, that is your apparant reality, and you would never know if it really wasn't the case.
well you contradict yourself, because in reality you are the one who belives you are God, the God you describe as the power that has all knowledge. so basically you belive you already posses all knowledge (im sure the theory is that the more you are in contact, aware with your spiritual side the more you get closer to true knowledge, your god side, or smth ridicoulous like that)
am i wrong here?
Well yes I am also God because there is nothing else. But I am God in a form that is tricked by another part of me, into believing that I am not God. Just like your own subconcious can trick you and make you do things you are not conciously aware of. I am the "not God" version of God, in order that I can experience new things and learn/explore.
quite alot of bullshit assumptions just to make it all glue togheter. and that is not how the subconcious works. which is also just a concept and being currently put in order in alot of different scientific fields
I wonder why advertizing companies are spending trillions every year because people pick up what they have seen subconciously. If it doesn't work, why would they spend so many money on it? Or do you believe people conciously buy it because it looked cool in the TV?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
yea well, if your point of view is valid, then i can say we trick ourselves into thinking that we are tricked by a god, who is us and is tricking us into thinking that we are being tricked. and well i was probably tricked into saying that.
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On August 18 2012 20:34 uiCk wrote:
yea well, if your point of view is valid, then i can say we trick ourselves into thinking that we are tricked by a god, who is us and is tricking us into thinking that we are being tricked. and well i was probably tricked into saying that.
Yeah and you might even be right, what is your point?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 18 2012 19:46 cariadon wrote:
I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did.
Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame.
If you had the option to know everything that ever happened and ever could happen, or the option of experiencing new stuff and wonder, explore and learn instead, which one would you choose? The one who knows everything can never experience something new or be surprised.
Personally I am quite satisfied with experiencing, learning and being surprised rather than knowing it all. And I would not trade it for the other option. And besides, as long as you think you make the decision and form your life, it doesn't really matter if you do it or not, because as long as you think you do it, that is your apparant reality, and you would never know if it really wasn't the case.
well you contradict yourself, because in reality you are the one who belives you are God, the God you describe as the power that has all knowledge. so basically you belive you already posses all knowledge (im sure the theory is that the more you are in contact, aware with your spiritual side the more you get closer to true knowledge, your god side, or smth ridicoulous like that)
am i wrong here?
Well yes I am also God because there is nothing else. But I am God in a form that is tricked by another part of me, into believing that I am not God. Just like your own subconcious can trick you and make you do things you are not conciously aware of. I am the "not God" version of God, in order that I can experience new things and learn/explore.
quite alot of bullshit assumptions just to make it all glue togheter. and that is not how the subconcious works. which is also just a concept and being currently put in order in alot of different scientific fields
I wonder why advertizing companies are spending trillions every year because people pick up what they have seen subconciously. If it doesn't work, why would they spend so many money on it? Or do you believe people conciously buy it because it looked cool in the TV?
when i said thats not how it works, i did not say it doesnt work (once again, re forming my ideas so it can fit your arguments). what i was saying, is that its more complex then you think it is. i rather not go into that since i have limited knowledge in that. but yea, its all a trick remember.
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On August 18 2012 20:34 uiCk wrote:
yea well, if your point of view is valid, then i can say we trick ourselves into thinking that we are tricked by a god, who is us and is tricking us into thinking that we are being tricked. and well i was probably tricked into saying that.
Yeah and you might even be right, what is your point?
my point is that your belief is as confusing as that ridicoulous satement i made, which makes no sense is a loop created by fallacies.
anyways i think i reached my point of saturation.
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On August 18 2012 20:34 uiCk wrote:
yea well, if your point of view is valid, then i can say we trick ourselves into thinking that we are tricked by a god, who is us and is tricking us into thinking that we are being tricked. and well i was probably tricked into saying that.
Yeah and you might even be right, what is your point?
my point is that your belief is as confusing as that ridicoulous satement i made, which makes no sense is a loop created by fallacies.
anyways i think i reached my point of saturation.
Yes you are right, that is the way rationality will end eventually one way or the other. Some things you have to believe others are puzzles puzzling me.
The moment you are 100% sure of anything, you automatically cut off an infinite amount of other options. To keep all options and eventualities open, we can never be 100% sure of anything, we are forced to believe. And everything we think we know can change in an instant because of this same mechanism. As long as you don't know for certain, anything can happen. Maybe there doesn't even exist anything for sure in an infinity world of possibilities.
There is nothing bridging the irrational and rational world, you can not explain the one with the tools of the other and it was made that way on purpose.
If you only see the perspective from a single point of view instead of every point of view, the picture does not look the same. Each of us are a single "God form" who sees a single perspective of the creation. Perhaps if you could see every perspective at once there would be no contradictions, good/evil etc. Perhaps these arise from our limited point of view of the entire experience.
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 18 2012 20:13 barbieman wrote:
I read about 80 pages of the old testament. My conclusions was that God is the biggest fucking asshole around.
For example: Oh, a village that doesn't believe in me except for this one god loving family. How can it be that this whole village
won't follow me or my teachings? No idea, might as well slay everyone except for that one family.
Well maybe because they had no idea you fucking existed?! Solution: Show people you are real. Nah, too easy.
They must believe in something so far fetched it's impossible. If they don't, they should suffer an eternity in hell.
If that doesn't seem reasonable I don't know what does.
Did you ever imagine that God might have humor, he might fool us and say rediculous things to make fun with and of us? Maybe that is even part of the experience? Maybe he also invented laughing and the experience it gives you?
Maybe he even invented the concept of trolling and the little internet troll face memo? And also the very concept of humor, irony, black humor etc. every kind of humor in existence?
If there was an allmighty God who was all powerfull and all knowing, how would it ever be possible not to follow his advice or teachings if he wanted you to? It would not.
And it would not make much sense saying that he posseses every characteristic and knows everything, and made us who we are but humor is unknown to him. So I guess if the description is true, it is obvious he posseses humor and is likely to use it just like we do.
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
^You mean God is likely being an ass just because he gave birth to the concept? If you stretch this proposition too much God loses any sort of reason for existing in the first place, other than to soothe the existential agony of people who are used to evaluating stuff merely by their immediate usefulness, while being intellectually lazy/dishonest enough to ignore the rest of it's implications...
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
On August 18 2012 21:25 Zorglub wrote:
If there was an allmighty God who was all powerfull and all knowing, how would it ever be possible not to follow his advice or teachings if he wanted you to? It would not.
Because he might be, as you just said, a fan of black humor. Would you when asked to gut your own kid say yes?
I quote Hitchens because I agree with him: "I would say: No, fuck you."
I quote Hitchens again because he has spoken a lot about the types of thoughts you have. The wish to live in universal totalitarian regime:
"It is a horrible idea that there is somebody who owns us, who makes us, who supervises us. Waking and sleeping. Who knows our thoughts. Who can convict us of thought crime, just for what we think. Who can judge us while we sleep for things that might occur us in our dreams. Who can create us sick, as apparently we are, and then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again. To demand this, to wish this to be true, is to wish to live as an abject slave."
On August 19 2012 05:25 lebowski wrote:
^You mean God is likely being an ass just because he gave birth to the concept? If you stretch this proposition too much God loses any sort of reason for existing in the first place, other than to soothe the existential agony of people who are used to evaluating stuff merely by their immediate usefulness, while being intellectually lazy/dishonest enough to ignore the rest of it's implications...
I think eternity would be pretty boring without some kind of entertainment, don't you?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 18 2012 21:25 Zorglub wrote:
If there was an allmighty God who was all powerfull and all knowing, how would it ever be possible not to follow his advice or teachings if he wanted you to? It would not.
Because he might be, as you just said, a fan of black humor. Would you when asked to gut your own kid say yes?
I quote Hitchens because I agree with him: "I would say: No, fuck you."
I quote Hitchens again because he has spoken a lot about the types of thoughts you have. The wish to live in universal totalitarian regime:
"It is a horrible idea that there is somebody who owns us, who makes us, who supervises us. Waking and sleeping. Who knows our thoughts. Who can convict us of thought crime, just for what we think. Who can judge us while we sleep for things that might occur us in our dreams. Who can create us sick, as apparently we are, and then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again. To demand this, to wish this to be true, is to wish to live as an abject slave."
You see, if one knows all there is no other way around it. Either you live in this totalitarian thought controlled existence and experience new stuff, perhaps without even knowing that you live in a thoughtcontrolled existence or you dont exist at all and experience nothing. Which one would you prefer?
But there are no thoughtcrimes, convictions, right/wrong, good/bad, damage, dead, pain etc. because it is Gods thoughts and crimes dont exist, there is only the illusion that it does, it is part of the entertainment but if you knew it for sure, it would not be as exciting or "real" to "live".
He does not really own us or make us, he IS us we just don't know in order that we can experience instead. The "I" you think you are is made up, it does not exist, it is an illusion so you dont know that you are God.
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 19 2012 07:01 Zorglub wrote:
He does not really own us or make us, he IS us we just don't know.
Aside from the fact that you have just given yourself an axiomatic premise without any support nor basis for it, which if true changes absolutely nothing:
You can not say things like this and then go on to make more assumptions about this "him".
Premises do not work like that.
This orange on my table is God? Alright, sure, fine, you silly nutcase you.
The God that is the orange on my table wants me to do something? Isn't an orange? Hates homosexuals? Is anything other than an an idle Orange?
Fuck you nut-o.
And another thing: You seem to have mistaken my earlier comment as a request for more bambling mumbling fumbling. It was not.
It was a fucking question: Given the premise that I mentioned in my reply would you when you believed you were being asked by this God to gut your own child, would you do it?
On August 19 2012 07:01 Zorglub wrote:
He does not really own us or make us, he IS us we just don't know.
Aside from the fact that you have just given yourself an axiomatic premise without any support nor basis for it, which if true changes absolutely nothing:
You can not say things like this and then go on to make more assumptions about this "him".
Premises do not work like that.
This orange on my table is God? Alright, sure, fine, you silly nutcase you.
The God that is the orange on my table wants me to do something? Isn't an orange? Hates homosexuals? Is anything other than an an idle Orange?
Fuck you nut-o.
And another thing: You seem to have mistaken my earlier comment as a request for more bambling mumbling fumbling. It was not.
It was a fucking question: Given the premise that I mentioned in my reply would you when you believed you were being asked by this God to gut your own child, would you do it?
I would do exactly as the story was meant to be experienced. If it was part of the story I would gut him, if not I would not. There is no child, free will, "I" or even "human" or life. It is an illusion made up for the experience, nothing else. You could also call it God experiencing what it is like to be "human" or God experiencing and living in his own creation as a human (or as 7 billion "humans" at the same time). Because you only percieve one of the experiences and everyone around you are defined as "human", you really think you are a "human".
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote:
I would do exactly as the story was meant to be experienced. If it was part of the story I would gut him, if not I would not.
THERE IS NO STORY. THIS IS NOT RELATED TO CHRISTIANITY.
IF I GIVE YOU YOUR PREMISE THAT THERE IS A GOD AND THAT HE HAS A BLACK SENSE OF HUMOR WOULD YOU
WHEN ASKED BY HIM GUT YOUR KID? This is YOUR GOD, creator of the universe, asking you for his own reasons to GUT YOUR OWN CHILD.
WOULD YOU GUT YOUR OWN CHILD FOR THE AMUSEMENT OF THIS TOTALITARIAN DICTATOR?
Yes or no. Would you or would you not. No ifs no buts no coconuts. No mumbling rambling fumbling. Just answer the question.
On August 19 2012 07:30 Zorglub wrote:
I would do exactly as the story was meant to be experienced. If it was part of the story I would gut him, if not I would not.
THERE IS NO STORY. THIS IS NOT RELATED TO CHRISTIANITY.
IF I GIVE YOU YOUR PREMISE THAT THERE IS A GOD AND THAT HE HAS A BLACK SENSE OF HUMOR WOULD YOU
WHEN ASKED BY HIM GUT YOUR KID? This is YOUR GOD, creator of the universe, asking you for his own reasons to GUT YOUR OWN CHILD.
WOULD YOU GUT YOUR OWN CHILD FOR THE AMUSEMENT OF THIS TOTALITARIAN DICTATOR?
Yes or no. Would you or would you not. No ifs no buts no coconuts. No mumbling rambling fumbling. Just answer the question.
I would yes, in fact I would not have any choice. If God really wanted me to do it, it is pretty obvious I could not choose to "not" do it. As long as I can choose to "not do it" God doesnt really want me to do it because if he really wanted me to do it I would have no choice. It is quite simple.
This totalitarian dictator is also you. And this totalitarian dictator makes everything you experience. Would you rather be without him, as in experiencing nothing for an eternity and killing yourself?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
Every explanation he gives is just confirming his theory of god and comes from that very source. He doesn't have any proof, how could he ? We just have to take his word for it. One thing is for sure - he is a believer. So halleluja. Or should i say "Melenjuunja" which this conversation reminds me of.
On August 19 2012 09:14 cariadon wrote:
Every explanation he gives is just confirming his theory of god and comes from that very source. He doesn't have any proof, how could he ? We just have to take his word for it. One thing is for sure - he is a believer. So halleluja. Or should i say "Melenjuunja" which this conversation reminds me of.
I am not here to prove something that was made so it never could be proved, I am here for the speculation and discussion.
Oh and btw. It is also pretty obvious that if God exist, he is not only religious he is agnostic and atheist too. Hallelujah or should I say Eureka?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On August 19 2012 09:06 Zorglub wrote:
I would yes, in fact I would not have any choice.
Actually, you would have a choice. Just as you have now when I ask you to say to yourself "I am fucking disgusting".
Even given your premise that there is a God he still chose to give you the choice.
You just told me that if you believed the creator of the universe were telling you to murder your own child you would.
You would feel obligated to do as they wish, no questions asked, without any pause for morality or ethics.
You would do what most of us would die rather than admit, to and murder a child, and who knows what more.
You would feel as if you "had no choice" but to do it.
You are fucking disgusting.
Now I know where to find these psychopaths that keep hearing voices telling them to kill children and actually go through with it beforetheydoit.
On LP convincing themselves that they are abject slaves free of all responsibility as they have no choices.
Contact Users: 723 Active, 3 Logged in - Time: 18:09
,
,
,
,