[POLL]Your religion? - Page 16

On August 18 2012 18:18 uiCk wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 18:01 Zorglub wrote:   On August 18 2012 17:56 uiCk wrote:   On August 18 2012 17:48 Zorglub wrote:   On August 18 2012 17:41 uiCk wrote: There is a difference between direct influence and perceived influence, which is just influence created by oneself using past experiences and present events (say you make a decision based on what you perceive as something your dead dad would do). If you have never had a direct contact with your grandfather, all his influences on you are actually just influences created by whoever was directly influenced by your grandfather, say your living dad. Basically saying that it is only the preset moment that directly influences you and the past is all perception, a collection of knowledge that has no actual power to influence you, unless you use that data in the present moment. I would say it is the other way around: The collection of knowledge and perception of the past will decide or influence everything you "decide" in the present. If you don't use your knowledge and perception of sucessrate of previous "choices", to make a decision about present choices, what exactly do you use to decide? So what you are saying is that the concept of the collection of past knowledge, data, has actually a conscious system, more powerful then the complexity of the human brain, that can take and directly create new experiences? And that we are just perceiving what this entity is creating around us and making us do new events ? A bit confused, mostly because your lack of defining and structuring your ideas and giving some examples would help, which I have tried to do as much as I couls Yes that is about right. That collection of data is infact "the human brain" illustrated by the mind. And this entity is infact only mind like we are but it cheats us into believing we are humans for entertainment purposes. Or you could call it God in a myriad of different forms enjoying his own creation. Like a musical symphony or a big theater act. Like Shakespeare said "The world is a stage". Well that concept is pure speculation, while I can define that data organizer, it being the brain and its nervous system, while you and others who believe in concept of spirituality can never explain nor properly define this complex data organizer and conscious being that controls us all, nor will you ever be able to explain or define rationally how and what the fictive link between that super concious and our collective consciousnesses. While I can say that the link between you and my conscious is formed through this written discussion using tools like writing, computers, electricity, internet etc. Something a person who believe in spirits and god will never be able to explain, making the discussion obsolete.

You are right but I can explain to you exactly why. The second "man" finds out he is not "man" he will discover the illusion and the show would be over. As long as "man" thinks he is "man" and can not prove otherwise, the show can continue.

So rationality and logic was specifically designed not to be able to prove the existence of anything supernatural because therein lies the whole illusion. Rationality and logic is part of the concept of being "man" and it guides our mind so we don't know and can not prove that we are in fact not "man".

To make it clear, everything in the cosmos is connected in a way that we are 'god'.

There is obviously a big difference between evolution, which is observable and creation from nothing, which is a fictional concept.

On August 18 2012 18:20 uiCk wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 18:18 Zorglub wrote:   On August 18 2012 18:12 uiCk wrote: To add Free will is an topic concept, that we will never archive to perfection but we can improve and work towards it like all other man created concept. We there they are universal concepts or not, the human experience is unique to humans, and in a micro level it is unique to each person giving them what we call individuality. And example of achieving an improved free will would be to apply the concept of persevirence to archive certain things. For example someone who has been thought to eat fat and sugary food and suddenly becomes aware of health risks and uses perseverance (and materialistic wealth obv) to one point enjoy eating healthy. At that point, that person , if offered fat corrosive food and healthy beans and vegetables, he will no longer be stuck to be choosing only the fat food because they hated (was not accustomed to it) it. That would be what I call free will, being more aware and broader data library. Man didn't create any concepts, if fact even the concept of "man" was created by something which was "not man", and that is the sole reason why "man" believes he is "man". Like I said if you re read my post, even if the concepts are universal, the human experience, perception, use of that concept is unique to humans. Prove this statement wrong, since you seem to disagree.

The concepts, experience, feelings, perception etc. are unique to humans because everything is designed as a "human" experience. All the things you percieve and "know" are part of that human experience, it defines what it means to be human.

If we saw a horn out of the corner of our eyes and everyone around us looked like we thought we looked ourselves and they called themselves rhinos. We would think we are rhinos like everyone around us and we would call ourselves rhinos, and we would behave and think like the other "rhinos" around us and we would have no chance of ever knowing that we were in fact not rhinos.

Ridicoulus concept, especially since you have not defined anything rationally of the points I asked you. Your beliefs transcend into how you form and express your ideas, with the conclusion that you use concepts that you poorly understand or able to define rationally, to support some new ideas or end results. Which basically means your priority is belief before rationality.

Sorry, its my opinion over the few brief discussions we have had, and plenty of examples where you support belief before rationality, so not trying to be mean or anything. Just its always the ending point of all discussions with people that prioritize belief in the supernatural, be it spirit or Zeus.

On August 18 2012 18:45 uiCk wrote: Ridicoulus concept, especially since you have not defined anything rationally of the points I asked you. Your beliefs transcend into how you form and express your ideas, with the conclusion that you use concepts that you poorly understand or able to define rationally, to support some new ideas or end results. Which basically means your priority is belief before rationality. Sorry, its my opinion over the few brief discussions we have had, and plenty of examples where you support belief before rationality, so not trying to be mean or anything. Just its always the ending point of all discussions with people that prioritize belief in the supernatural, be it spirit or Zeus.

Listen I don't really care if you believe what I believe, it is up to you. I just explain what I believe and I like to discuss it to hear other peoples perception and be wiser that way.

Rationality, what is it? How did it come into being? I can not define it rationally because it was designed that way by an intelligence we can not even imagine. Rationality can not explain everything because we are not supposed to know everything. We are only supposed to know or figure out for sure what ever is defined as rational, everything else we are not supposed to know and not supposed to ever be able to figure out for sure. We call the part we can not know rationally for chaos, chance, probability, luck, God, spirits, supernatural, nature etc, some would call it women, it has numerous names.

You can explain rationality using my previous concepts, as simply being the result of continuing evolution of our 'brain tools' , like perseverance. Its all concepts and tools that are evolutionary observable.

What you don't seem to understand is Im not looking for u too explain what influence that ultimate power has, but explain what that 'higher power' is and how it connects with us. That's the only thing that's missing in your point of view. If you can't explain it, why believe it? (I can answer that one if you'd like)

On August 18 2012 19:16 uiCk wrote: You can explain rationality using my previous concepts, as simply being the result of continuing evolution of our 'brain tools' , like perseverance. Its all concepts and tools that are evolutionary observable. What you don't seem to understand is Im not looking for u too explain what influence that ultimate power has, but explain what that 'higher power' is and how it connects with us. That's the only thing that's missing in your point of view. If you can't explain it, why believe it? (I can answer that one if you'd like)

Everything we think we know and experience comes from the mind. The mind is all there is and all there ever was, everything else is created by that mind. Every thought, feeling and perception, memory of times gone by, perception of time and even life itself is nothing but feelings, thoughts, perceptions and concepts comming from the mind which tricks us into believing that this is in fact the truth, while in reality it is not. We can not believe or even understand or experience anything whaich the mind doesn't tell us, it can trick us into believing or experiencing everything, and we will believe it is real each and every time.

Didn't you argue that the environemt influences our decisions and perceptions? Because what you are saying now is that there is no environment and ' god' tricks us into thinking there is one by making a simulation of the environment into our minds.

On August 18 2012 19:30 uiCk wrote: Didn't you argue that the environemt influences our decisions and perceptions? Because what you are saying now is that there is no environment and ' god' tricks us into thinking there is one by making a simulation of the environment into our minds.

That was the rational explanation, but it comes to a natural end at spirituality/religion/supernatural/God, it only works a certain way, further than that it can not explain anything at all and because it is the tool we use to figure stuff out, we are naturally made so we can not ever imagine something which can not be rationally explained can be true. And even if we can imagine it, we can never ever be certain (Therefore we have the uncertainty priciple). This was the spiritual explanation, which you will never be able to prove in a rational way, exactly because it was designed that way.

Rationality, good/bad, black/white, one option rules out another ect. are rules of the world we live in which was made for us. It is used to trick our mind, it is not the real truth. I makes us believe we are humans bacause we are the very definition of humans. The duality is so we can not see that we are also God.

God can make a rock he can not lift and lift a rock he can not make, or do both at the same times. We think one option rules out another, but it doesn't. That is why we think we are humans but infact we are also God, we just don't know it.

I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did.
Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame.

On August 18 2012 19:46 cariadon wrote: I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did. Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame.

If you had the option to know everything that ever happened and ever could happen, or the option of experiencing new stuff and wonder, explore and learn instead, which one would you choose? The one who knows everything can never experience something new or be surprised.

Personally I am quite satisfied with experiencing, learning and being surprised rather than knowing it all. And I would not trade it for the other option. And besides, as long as you think you make the decision and form your life, it doesn't really matter if you do it or not, because as long as you think you do it, that is your apparant reality and you would never know if it really wasn't the case.

On August 18 2012 19:33 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 19:30 uiCk wrote: Didn't you argue that the environemt influences our decisions and perceptions? Because what you are saying now is that there is no environment and ' god' tricks us into thinking there is one by making a simulation of the environment into our minds. That was the rational explanation, but it comes to a natural end at spirituality/religion/supernatural/God, it only works a certain way, further than that it can not explain anything at all and because it is the tool we use to figure stuff out, we are naturally made so we can not ever imagine something which can not be rationally explained can be true. And even if we can imagine it, we can never ever be certain (Therefore we have the uncertainty priciple). This was the spiritual explanation, which you will never be able to prove in a rational way, exactly because it was designed that way. Rationality, good/bad, black/white, one option rules out another ect. are rules of the world we live in which was made for us. It is used to trick our mind, it is not the real truth. I makes us believe we are humans bacause we are the very definition of humans. The duality is so we can not see that we are also God. God can make a rock he can not lift and lift a rock he can not make, or do both at the same times. We think one option rules out another, but it doesn't. That is why we think we are humans but infact we are also God, we just don't know it.

let me quote myself

On August 18 2012 18:26 uiCk wrote: To make it clear, everything in the cosmos is connected in a way that we are 'god'.

now i differed that in a way, that like the cosmos, god, is also in expansion, in evolution, and will continue to gain knowledge and wisdom. you are saying the boundaries of god knowledge is complete and cosmos is just a game where god puts his knowledge to work and play or whatever the reason might be. what im saying is that us and the cosmos, the synergie between all elements, which is god, is is always gaining more knowledge. and ultimate knowledge, where god knows everything, is just another utopic consept like true free will and others alike. you can improve, though there is no end result and remains pure concept.

On August 18 2012 19:56 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 19:46 cariadon wrote: I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did. Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame. If you had the option to know everything that ever happened and ever could happen, or the option of experiencing new stuff and wonder, explore and learn instead, which one would you choose? The one who knows everything can never experience something new or be surprised. Personally I am quite satisfied with experiencing, learning and being surprised rather than knowing it all. And I would not trade it for the other option. And besides, as long as you think you make the decision and form your life, it doesn't really matter if you do it or not, because as long as you think you do it, that is your apparant reality, and you would never know if it really wasn't the case.

well you contradict yourself, because in reality you are the one who belives you are God, the God you describe as the power that has all knowledge. so basically you belive you already posses all knowledge (im sure the theory is that the more you are in contact, aware with your spiritual side the more you get closer to true knowledge, your god side, or smth ridicoulous like that)
am i wrong here?

I read about 80 pages of the old testament. My conclusions was that God is the biggest fucking asshole around.
For example: Oh, a village that doesn't believe in me except for this one god loving family. How can it be that this whole village
won't follow me or my teachings? No idea, might as well slay everyone except for that one family.

Well maybe because they had no idea you fucking existed?! Solution: Show people you are real. Nah, too easy.
They must believe in something so far fetched it's impossible. If they don't, they should suffer an eternity in hell.
If that doesn't seem reasonable I don't know what does.

Also people that say they are Christians and won't follow 100% of what the bible says, how can they claim to be Christians?

On August 18 2012 20:04 uiCk wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 19:33 Zorglub wrote:   On August 18 2012 19:30 uiCk wrote: Didn't you argue that the environemt influences our decisions and perceptions? Because what you are saying now is that there is no environment and ' god' tricks us into thinking there is one by making a simulation of the environment into our minds. That was the rational explanation, but it comes to a natural end at spirituality/religion/supernatural/God, it only works a certain way, further than that it can not explain anything at all and because it is the tool we use to figure stuff out, we are naturally made so we can not ever imagine something which can not be rationally explained can be true. And even if we can imagine it, we can never ever be certain (Therefore we have the uncertainty priciple). This was the spiritual explanation, which you will never be able to prove in a rational way, exactly because it was designed that way. Rationality, good/bad, black/white, one option rules out another ect. are rules of the world we live in which was made for us. It is used to trick our mind, it is not the real truth. I makes us believe we are humans bacause we are the very definition of humans. The duality is so we can not see that we are also God. God can make a rock he can not lift and lift a rock he can not make, or do both at the same times. We think one option rules out another, but it doesn't. That is why we think we are humans but infact we are also God, we just don't know it. let me quote myself   On August 18 2012 18:26 uiCk wrote: To make it clear, everything in the cosmos is connected in a way that we are 'god'. now i differed that in a way, that like the cosmos, god, is also in expansion, in evolution, and will continue to gain knowledge and wisdom. you are saying the boundaries of god knowledge is complete and cosmos is just a game where god puts his knowledge to work and play or whatever the reason might be. what im saying is that us and the cosmos, the synergie between all elements, which is god, is is always gaining more knowledge. and ultimate knowledge, where god knows everything, is just another utopic consept like true free will and others alike. you can improve, though there is no end result and remains pure concept.

There is no boundry. Boundries only exist in our human experience, there is no boundry for knowledge, intelligence etc. infinity is infinity. The everything that God know, has no edge, no boundry or anything. We have a hard time understanding it because we are limited, and everything we can observe seems limited, but limits are also a concept made by God. Expansion, evolution etc. are the rules of the game made by God, those rules do not apply to God himself, only to God in the human form.

On August 18 2012 20:08 uiCk wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 19:56 Zorglub wrote:   On August 18 2012 19:46 cariadon wrote: I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did. Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame. If you had the option to know everything that ever happened and ever could happen, or the option of experiencing new stuff and wonder, explore and learn instead, which one would you choose? The one who knows everything can never experience something new or be surprised. Personally I am quite satisfied with experiencing, learning and being surprised rather than knowing it all. And I would not trade it for the other option. And besides, as long as you think you make the decision and form your life, it doesn't really matter if you do it or not, because as long as you think you do it, that is your apparant reality, and you would never know if it really wasn't the case. well you contradict yourself, because in reality you are the one who belives you are God, the God you describe as the power that has all knowledge. so basically you belive you already posses all knowledge (im sure the theory is that the more you are in contact, aware with your spiritual side the more you get closer to true knowledge, your god side, or smth ridicoulous like that) am i wrong here?

Well yes I am also God because there is nothing else. But I am God in a form that is tricked by another part of me, into believing that I am not God. Just like your own subconcious can trick you and make you do things you are not conciously aware of. I am the "not God" version of God, in order that I can experience new things and learn/explore.

but when you said that god already knows all experiences and all knowledge, you are the one creating the boundaries. im the one who says there are no boundaries, you are the one who makes insane amount of contradictions because your trying to explain a belief, to yourself nonetheless

On August 18 2012 20:18 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 20:08 uiCk wrote:   On August 18 2012 19:56 Zorglub wrote:   On August 18 2012 19:46 cariadon wrote: I used to hold Zorglub in high regard because of some older posts. Even though it might be fun to think of concepts like the one he is presenting i'd rather see them in a mushroom thread than backing it with your good name on the line. To me, the overmind concept is a bit too out there. It defies rationality. I don't accept the fact we are puppets in a play a greater being created. The idea of that sucks ass. There can be little to no reasoning behind these kind of things that's why i stopped where i did. Floofy if you are reading this i beg of you to make a Lizard/overmind/london 2012 boardgame. Put all of the good stuff in there. It could even have a "mind blown" spot that makes you start at the beginning again. I think that would be a kickass boardgame. If you had the option to know everything that ever happened and ever could happen, or the option of experiencing new stuff and wonder, explore and learn instead, which one would you choose? The one who knows everything can never experience something new or be surprised. Personally I am quite satisfied with experiencing, learning and being surprised rather than knowing it all. And I would not trade it for the other option. And besides, as long as you think you make the decision and form your life, it doesn't really matter if you do it or not, because as long as you think you do it, that is your apparant reality, and you would never know if it really wasn't the case. well you contradict yourself, because in reality you are the one who belives you are God, the God you describe as the power that has all knowledge. so basically you belive you already posses all knowledge (im sure the theory is that the more you are in contact, aware with your spiritual side the more you get closer to true knowledge, your god side, or smth ridicoulous like that) am i wrong here? Well yes I am also God because there is nothing else. But I am God in a form that is tricked by another part of me, into believing that I am not God. Just like your own subconcious can trick you and make you do things you are not conciously aware of. I am the "not God" version of God, in order that I can experience new things and learn/explore.

quite alot of bullshit assumptions just to make it all glue togheter. and that is not how the subconcious works. which is also just a concept and being currently put in order in alot of different scientific fields