$1 PLO paired board minraises in 3bet pots

I would say villain is an ok regular. He plays 24/20 with an aggression factor of 50% and he opens about 60% of his buttons over 3046 hands.
I feel villain has a fair amount of momentum vs me as we've happend to face each other in a couple of pots and villain has been winning most of them.
I think the flop is a tough spot, because villains bluff is so cheap and I don't want him to be able to raise these boards 100% of the time.
How do you approach these spots? Would you cut down on your c-betting? Check and call some flops? What are your thoughts on the hand as played? Thanks.

Submitted by : InsideMan

$1 PL Hi 6 max - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

UTG: $97.86
MP: $112.70
CO: $90.00
BTN: $177.50
SB: $90.20
Hero BB : $153.05

SB posts SB $1.00, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: pot: $2.00 Hero has

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $3.00, fold, Hero raises to $10.00, BTN calls $7.00

Flop: $21.00, 2 players
Hero bets $12.00, BTN raises to $25.00, Hero calls $13.00

Turn: $71.00, 2 players
Hero checks, BTN bets $36.00

these are some of the hardest spots in PLO because his range is as polarized as it gets and its a total leveling war. analysis wont work because it all depends on how often he decides to randomly bluff here.

but you are actually in better shape on the flop than if you had AA since this limits him having JJxx by a great deal and you have pretty good backdoor outs. but i think he probably has trips somewhere in the 10-15% range. and he probably has the nutboat another 1%. so assume he has a hand 15% here. having a read on his barrelling frequency helps a lot, as does having a read based on what he does on different turns that he may perceive as scary or bluffable and what sizings he will use.

when i find myself in a leveling war and i dont know what to do i usually try to go GTO. happens pretty often because i suck ass at leveling wars. from a GTO perspective, we need to be calling the flop raise with a huge amount of hands and then dropping out the bottom 30% of those hands on the turn. since we turned a flush draw this is in the top 70% of our turn range so i would continue calling and make a soul read on rivers

GTO?

On July 31 2012 20:58 Darace wrote: GTO?

Game Theory Optimal

On July 31 2012 09:37 Daut wrote: these are some of the hardest spots in PLO because his range is as polarized as it gets and its a total leveling war. analysis wont work because it all depends on how often he decides to randomly bluff here. but you are actually in better shape on the flop than if you had AA since this limits him having JJxx by a great deal and you have pretty good backdoor outs. but i think he probably has trips somewhere in the 10-15% range. and he probably has the nutboat another 1%. so assume he has a hand 15% here. having a read on his barrelling frequency helps a lot, as does having a read based on what he does on different turns that he may perceive as scary or bluffable and what sizings he will use. when i find myself in a leveling war and i dont know what to do i usually try to go GTO. happens pretty often because i suck ass at leveling wars. from a GTO perspective, we need to be calling the flop raise with a huge amount of hands and then dropping out the bottom 30% of those hands on the turn. since we turned a flush draw this is in the top 70% of our turn range so i would continue calling and make a soul read on rivers

Yea, I think that's a good approach. Thanks for the input.

Betting this flop is mandatory. He might have a 6 slightly more than you, but you have JJ+ way more. You have to muscle it out and play the leveling game in order to retain your ability to cbet this flop 100% and win so often with air.

Definitely call this turn, probably fold a brick river.

On August 01 2012 21:29 NMcNasty wrote: Betting this flop is mandatory. He might have a 6 slightly more than you, but you have JJ+ way more. You have to muscle it out and play the leveling game in order to retain your ability to cbet this flop 100% and win so often with air. Definitely call this turn, probably fold a brick river.

very good point

On August 01 2012 21:29 NMcNasty wrote: Betting this flop is mandatory. He might have a 6 slightly more than you, but you have JJ+ way more. You have to muscle it out and play the leveling game in order to retain your ability to cbet this flop 100% and win so often with air. Definitely call this turn, probably fold a brick river.

Isn't it standard to call the playable JJxx's in hero's spot and dump the unplayable ones? I feel like the 3 bet basically takes JJxx out of hero's range since it plays better in single raised pots than 3 bet pots. It also sucks when you get 4 bet with JJxx.

The theory behind flatting with mid-high pairs makes sense but just don't take it too far. A button raise in PLO generally means nothing, good JJ+ hands need to be 3bet for value. It sucks to get 4bet but it should be uncommon enough at this level that you can deal with it when it happens. There's no shame in 3betting thin for value and folding to 4bet vs a tight player.

On July 31 2012 09:37 Daut wrote: When i find myself in a leveling war and i dont know what to do i usually try to go GTO. happens pretty often because i suck ass at leveling wars. from a GTO perspective, we need to be calling the flop raise with a huge amount of hands and then dropping out the bottom 30% of those hands on the turn. since we turned a flush draw this is in the top 70% of our turn range so i would continue calling and make a soul read on rivers

How do you come up with the % of hands you need to be dropping on the turn, for the play to be GTO? Is it because he needs me to fold >33% betting the amount he did? Does it take the possibility of him having it (by it, I mean JJ or 6x) into account? How so?

On August 03 2012 08:15 Zetsnotdead wrote: Show nested quote + On July 31 2012 09:37 Daut wrote: When i find myself in a leveling war and i dont know what to do i usually try to go GTO. happens pretty often because i suck ass at leveling wars. from a GTO perspective, we need to be calling the flop raise with a huge amount of hands and then dropping out the bottom 30% of those hands on the turn. since we turned a flush draw this is in the top 70% of our turn range so i would continue calling and make a soul read on rivers How do you come up with the % of hands you need to be dropping on the turn, for the play to be GTO? Is it because he needs me to fold >33% betting the amount he did? Does it take the possibility of him having it (by it, I mean JJ or 6x) into account? How so?

so lets start with some math that everyone knows: say i bet 10 into 20 on the flop. i only need it to work 1 out of 3 for my play to be profitable.

if you are my opponent though you dont want to let me get a freeroll. so you must fold less than 1/3 the time or defend 67% of the time to prevent me from getting a freeroll on my cbet with any 2 cards.

likewise here, by defending ~70% on the turn you prevent the opponent from getting a freeroll by betting any 4 cards since he bet 1/2 pot.

so basically on the flop i think its mandatory to call with any jack, any overpair, any double pair hand (8877 type stuff), hands with huge backdoors like KQT9 with backdoor flushes and of course monsters.

on the turn i would continue with any overpair, any good jack (turned either a straight or flush draw), turned big draws+sets (i.e. if 8877 turned a set obviously continue, if KQT9 turned an AKQT98 continue) and your monsters. so you are dropping out the 2 pair hands that missed, the bad jacks and the backdoor hand that bricked the turn.

this way you are defending a large % of your cbet range on the flop and a large percent of your flop calling range on the turn.


all of that said, dont make a -EV play. if you know your opponent is nitty or shows up with it most of the time here then dont fuck around with hands that have low equity against the hands hes likely to show up with. you should still call with the KKJx type hands and stuff like AA88, but dont call super super wide. but if you think theres a reasonable chance your opponent could be bluffing here (which is most likely the case cause people love bluffing these boards), you should play your range in a way that its not profitable for him to just monkey off with any 4 cards

Now I understand it, perfect. Thank you for taking the time to write such a throughout explanation.

I'm happy I read that.