UFC on Fox: Shogun vs. Vera

Date: Saturday, August 4th
Preliminary Card (Fuel TV): 16:00 LP.net / 2pm PST / 5pm EST
Main Card Time (FOX): 19:00 LP.net / 5pm PST / 8pm EST
Live Streams: Main card is live on FOX & the Prelims are live on Fuel TV - http://www.vipbox.tv (All MMA events are listed under the UFC button. Press the UFC button and you'll see the event in the list.)





Main Card (FOX)

Mauricio Rua (20-6) vs. Brandon Vera (12-5) (Light Heavyweight)
Lyoto Machida (17-3) vs. Ryan Bader (14-2) (Light Heavyweight)
Joe Lauzon (21-7) vs. Jamie Varner (20-6-1) (Lightweight)
Mike Swick (14-4) vs. DaMarques Johnson (15-10) (Welterweight)

Preliminary Card (Fuel TV)

Cole Miller (18-6) vs. Nam Phan (17-10) (Featherweight)
Phil Davis (9-1) vs. Wagner Prado (8-0) (Light Heavyweight)
Rani Yahya (16-7) vs. Josh Grispi (14-3) (Featherweight)
Oli Thompson (9-3) vs. Phil De Fries (8-1) (Heavyweight)
Michihiro Omigawa (13-11-1) vs. Manvel Gamburyan (11-7) (Featherweight)
Ulysses Gomez (9-2) vs. John Moraga (10-1) (Flyweight)

UFC on FOX 4 Injury List

- Chad Griggs was expected to face Phil Davis at the event. However, Griggs was forced out of the bout with an injury and replaced by promotional newcomer Wagner Prado.
- Brian Stann was expected to headline the event against promotional newcomer Hector Lombard. However, Stann was forced out of the bout citing a shoulder injury.
- Pablo Garza was forced to withdraw from his fight against Josh Grispi due to injury, Grispi will now face Rani Yahya.
- Terry Etim was forced to withdraw from his fight against Joe Lauzon due to injury, Lauzon will now face Jamie Varner.
- Rob Broughton was expected to face Matt Mitrione at the event. However, the bout was scrapped after Broughton pulled out for an undisclosed personal matter.
- Ben Rothwell pulled out of his fight against Travis Browne due to an injured ankle. This led to Browne being removed from the card, while Mike Swick vs. DaMarques Johnson was bumped up to the main card.

Shogun > Vera
Machida > Bader
Varner > Lauzon
Swick > Johnson
Miller > Phan (Miller looked like shit in his last fight, Phan is terrible but usually solid at being a mediocre fighter.)
Davis > Prado (anyone know anything about Prado? 8-0 with 7 wins via KO/TKO, he's on Team Nogueira.)
Yahya > Grispi
Thompson > De Fries
Gamburyan > Omigawa
Gomez > Moraga

any wrestlers in the card? i hope they keep fighting in the UFC

Prado is supposed to be a bad mf but I dunno, hard to say since I haven't seen him fight. If he's really good it might be 3/3 for the Brazilians at light heavyweight. After watching some on youtube I think Davids takes it by some kind of sub, probably a arm triangle or some kind of Kimura/americana/armbarvariation from side control.

Davis's striking improved in every fight, which is good. His fight vs. Rashad was kinda boring since Rashad didn't want to pull the trigger and risk getting clipped in an exchange.

Davis's wrestling is top 2 I think, at Light Heavyweight, and he's strong, which allows him to own most people on the ground when he's on top.

Here are the records of the last 5 guys Prado has beaten:

0-2 | http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Aldo-Sultao-96023
3-3 | http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Wellington-Guilherme-Rodrigues-58978
1-3 | http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Cleber-Tavares-de-Moura-12991
5-9 | http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Fernando-Tressino-26296
7-4 | http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Luis-Eduardo-da-Paixao-70967

Really cool card. Too bad Rothwell got hurt.

During the press conference today, Dana said "the winner of Shogun/Vera gets the next title shot".

On July 30 2012 17:37 PuertoRican wrote: During the press conference today, Dana said "the winner of Shogun/Vera gets the next title shot".

cant put a bet on the big fights, they pay at -300 or worse and well, Shogun is a beat but is famous for his slumps so he is high risk and Machida will win also but he is fighting a wrestler with massive KO power so i do see the upset from time to time, not worth to bet at -310.

Davis which is the safest bet pays at -500 which is absurd and should never be a bet unless its the sickest lock ever and Davis is solid but new, not solid enough for that imo.


toughts?

On July 30 2012 17:46 HaiVan wrote: Show nested quote + On July 30 2012 17:37 PuertoRican wrote: During the press conference today, Dana said "the winner of Shogun/Vera gets the next title shot".

It's a big slap in the face to the true #1 contender, Alexander Gustafsson, who might not be ready in terms of skill, but is on a 5 win streak and finished 4 of those 5 people.

It seems weird since Shogun is coming off a loss, a record of 1-2 in his last 3 fights, one of those fights being a loss to the current champion. If he beats Vera, he would have put himself on a 1 win streak against a guy that's not in the top 15 of the Light Heavyweight divsion.

Also, it's crazy how Vera was on a 3 loss streak and cut from the UFC until Thiago Silva tested positive, which was then turned into a NC. Vera then comes back to beat Eliot Marshall via Decision, then headlines a UFC card vs. Shogun, all while having only 1 win in his last 4 fights.

Hopefully this fight is entertaining, no matter who wins. I mainly want to see some improvement from both fighters.

I still think Vera wins. To me favoring shogun above -300 vs anyone who used to be good/still is decent seems foolish. he got his face caved in twice and that gets to peoples' heads in any form of competition over time. if shogun loses this fight you will never be able to capitalize on these odds vs him ever again b/c it will label him as a burnout so hell be like -135 and shit vs randoms and u cant make a big score anymore on +250 or > lines

In terms of value I think this goes to Vera and I would believe the line closer to the fight will reflect it in his favor

Dana White video blog day 1.

----------




haha, nice hype video for Shogun. Suck a dick Rampage.

vera is garbage. not even broken down shogun will lose to him.

vera/shogun getting title shot is obviously a crock of shit. neither were competitive with jones first time around and there are more deserving people, namely gustaffson, machida (competitive with jones first fight), glover teixiera (should he beat rampage) and anderson (pipe dream that would never happen). other than those 4 and hendo everyone else is at least 2 fights away from a title shot.

just a fun little fact, the co main and main events have 4 light heavyweights who were all finished by jones in the past 2 years.

On July 31 2012 12:41 Daut wrote: just a fun little fact, the co main and main events have 4 light heavyweights who were all finished by jones in the past 2 years.

Vera +301/Shogun -345 right now on pinnacle. does it close higher or lower?

Short story about Prado. He got his car transformed in a Brazilian TV show like Discovery's Overhaulin'. During the show he told the host that he was an MMA fighter. The host was friends with Minotauro and bla bla bla...

I don't know anything about him apart from that. Never saw him fight.

Jones has to fight someone. Gustafsson's best win by far is Thiago Silva, and Machida just lost to Jones in his last fight. There's really nobody who deserves a title shot right now.

gustaffsson would be more deserving of a title shot than thales leites, patrick cote, demian maia, dan hardy, mark hominick or matt serra were.

and machida may look insanely impressive against bader saturday. giving him a title shot after a huge dominating win would be fine imo.

also jones isnt fighting hendo til september. if glover teixeira beats rampage around then he would be fine to get one as well

cormier hurry up and knock mir out.

On July 31 2012 13:21 Raidern wrote: Short story about Prado. He got his car transformed in a Brazilian TV show like Discovery's Overhaulin'. During the show he told the host that he was an MMA fighter. The host was friends with Minotauro and bla bla bla... I don't know anything about him apart from that. Never saw him fight.

plus, team nogueira sucks nowaydays
they took other guy who was in the Big Brother Brasil
the only info they had was that the guy was a random muai thay teacher somewhere and they took the guy to train with them, wtf ?

I don't know for sure, but Team Nogueira seems like just a popular team to join because of the history, not in terms of how good the team is nowadays. It reminds me of the old sc1 clans that people joined after all the good players retired, they only joined because of the prestigious name/title.

nm

On July 31 2012 12:39 Daut wrote: vera is garbage. not even broken down shogun will lose to him. vera/shogun getting title shot is obviously a crock of shit. neither were competitive with jones first time around and there are more deserving people, namely gustaffson, machida (competitive with jones first fight), glover teixiera (should he beat rampage) and anderson (pipe dream that would never happen). other than those 4 and hendo everyone else is at least 2 fights away from a title shot.

thats true but in Danas perspective there arent many options, Machida cant fight Jones againt so soon obv, he probably doesnt want Gustaffson to take that fight yet and he wants him to grow more.

On July 31 2012 19:07 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On July 31 2012 12:39 Daut wrote: vera is garbage. not even broken down shogun will lose to him. vera/shogun getting title shot is obviously a crock of shit. neither were competitive with jones first time around and there are more deserving people, namely gustaffson, machida (competitive with jones first fight), glover teixiera (should he beat rampage) and anderson (pipe dream that would never happen). other than those 4 and hendo everyone else is at least 2 fights away from a title shot. thats true but in Danas perspective there arent many options, Machida cant fight Jones againt so soon obv, he probably doesnt want Gustaffson to take that fight yet and he wants him to grow more, Hendo is the super obvious choice i have no idea why Dana didnt chose him.

Dan Henderson is already fighting Jon Jones in September, at UFC 151.

The winner of Shogun/Vera gets the winner of Jones/Henderson.

----------

Nice ninja edit you did...

Dana already said in his video blog that the most impressive win of those 2 fights ( machida vs bader and Vera vs Shogun ) will get the title shot and not the winner of Shogun vs Vera

So now whoever wins in more impressive fashion gets the title shot (Shogun vs Vera, Machida vs Bader), that's still bad but not as bad as winner of Shogun/Vera gets it no matter what. Guess LHW is the new MW lol. But thats what a dominant champ does to a division.

On July 31 2012 19:10 PuertoRican wrote: Show nested quote + On July 31 2012 19:07 Baalim wrote:   On July 31 2012 12:39 Daut wrote: vera is garbage. not even broken down shogun will lose to him. vera/shogun getting title shot is obviously a crock of shit. neither were competitive with jones first time around and there are more deserving people, namely gustaffson, machida (competitive with jones first fight), glover teixiera (should he beat rampage) and anderson (pipe dream that would never happen). other than those 4 and hendo everyone else is at least 2 fights away from a title shot. thats true but in Danas perspective there arent many options, Machida cant fight Jones againt so soon obv, he probably doesnt want Gustaffson to take that fight yet and he wants him to grow more, Hendo is the super obvious choice i have no idea why Dana didnt chose him. Dan Henderson is already fighting Jon Jones in September, at UFC 151. The winner of Shogun/Vera gets the winner of Jones/Henderson. ---------- Nice ninja edit you did...

haha googled it and ninja edited it, anyway then its obvious why.... There are simply no other options, this is going to be funny if Shogun somehow loses and we have a Vera vs Jones fight haha, what would be the line on that, -1000

On July 31 2012 19:43 HaiVan wrote: So now whoever wins in more impressive fashion gets the title shot (Shogun vs Vera, Machida vs Bader), that's still bad but not as bad as winner of Shogun/Vera gets it no matter what. Guess UFC is the new WWF lol. But thats what a dominant champ does to a division.

fyp

you cant make any money in the main/co-main events. jst have to sit back and watch wrasslers eat knees and elbows. team crocop

damn Baal edited twice so we couldnt read his post

These title shots for Jones are garbage. I think it's time to fight a mid level heavyweight like they did with Anderson when nothing was going on. Like Mir/Kongo/Browne/Rothwell.

Gustavsson makes sense as well, but it also makes sense to wait a little with that fight.

I agree.

What do you guys think about the LHW division? JJ exposed how weak/bad the fighters are, or is he just a beast on another lvl?

The LHW has been super shallow talent-wise for at least 7 years.

Did you have that opinion before JJ broke into the scene? Cuz I remember most people thought that LHW was super stacked with Machida, Shogun, Rampage, Evans, Griffin and a few guys coming up like Bader, Davis and JJ.

LHW was the most stacked division around the time Shogun won the GP. Back then LHW was ahead of its time and the strongest division with a prime Arona, Rampage, Wanderlei, Shogun, Liddell, Couture, Henderson, Nog, and then guys like Overeem, Ortiz, Sobral to complete the amazing division that it was. Some of these guys stuck around which gave the UFC and fans a reason to think LHW was stacked when it wasn't. Very few if any of them improved, and many quit or didn't make it to the UFC. Basically how I see LHW is a division that has been stagnant for seven years and lost its best competitors along the way.

Jon Jones is a beast who is enormous and ahead of his time. LHW is weak and Jon Jones is extremely good. The result is not pretty.

On August 01 2012 11:00 Raidern wrote: Did you have that opinion before JJ broke into the scene?

Yes. I usually used the LHW fights to go grab condiments or go to the bathroom unless the fight was the ME and decent
for ~4ish years, essentially ever since I started watching the UFC.

Even when the main event was a LHW fight, there were always more interesting fights in the other weight classes. No exceptions.

On August 01 2012 11:15 Nazgul wrote: LHW was the most stacked division around the time Shogun won the GP. Back then LHW was ahead of its time and the strongest division with a prime Arona, Rampage, Wanderlei, Shogun, Liddell, Couture, Henderson, Nog, and then guys like Overeem, Ortiz, Sobral to complete the amazing division that it was. Some of these guys stuck around which gave the UFC and fans a reason to think LHW was stacked when it wasn't. Very few if any of them improved, and many quit or didn't make it to the UFC. Basically how I see LHW is a division that has been stagnant for seven years and lost its best competitors along the way.

Yeah this in essence. Division just became a bunch of old dudes with no interest in changing or learning nor improving.

Jones, Henderson, Machida, and Rashad are better than they ever were. Not to mention up and comers like Phil Davis, The Master, and Gustafsson. I still don't think Shogun has declined as much as everybody seems to think he has. LHW is still strong.

^ Shogun didn't decline, he just never improved. Although, you might say he declined because of the knee surgeries, which is devastating to someone with Shogun's fight style. You can see it in his first, and "I think" second match back from his last knee surgery.

^WTF of course that 100% counts as declining. No 'might say' shenanigans.

It's like saying "Cro Cop didn't decline....but that you might say he declined because of all those injuries."

Ariel Helwani: "FOX announces they'll be using the "ref cam" on Saturday night. We've seen it in PRIDE, EliteXC etc, but I think that's a 1st 4 UFC, right?"

UFC Shogun vs Vera: Road to the Octagon
+ Show Spoiler +

Machida: Dragon Philosophy
+ Show Spoiler +

Paula Sack interviews Wagner Prado.
+ Show Spoiler +

fucking super athletes with no balls, i want to live in a world where Silva moves up to LHW and where JJ does the same to HW.

On August 01 2012 20:10 Baalim wrote: fucking super athletes with no balls, i want to live in a world where Silva moves up to LHW and where JJ does the same to HW.

Unlike Silva & GSP I do believe Jones is confident enough in his abilities to move up and fight champs.

I believe he was talking about doing it awhile ago. I think Dana is the one who said he should wait and completely clear out 205.

Not to mention Jones is still young and growing, so it's possible he will have to move to HW.

So I expect him there in the next couple years.

Hopefully he does, its pathetic that their egos about being undefeated and shit is more important than to challenge themselves.

that's why people respect bj penn. he didnt give a fuck at all. i remember him fighting machida in japan and also moving up to welterweight(not looking great for his body frame) and beating the shit out of matt hughes - a wrassler

On August 01 2012 20:58 Baalim wrote: Hopefully he does, its pathetic that their egos about being undefeated and shit is more important than to challenge themselves.

[ ] Egos
[x] Tens and tens of millions of dollars

Anderson Silva makes millions upon millions of dollars per fight, why would he want to change that?
Why would his manager which likely gets a percentage want to change that?

On August 01 2012 22:37 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 01 2012 20:58 Baalim wrote: Hopefully he does, its pathetic that their egos about being undefeated and shit is more important than to challenge themselves. [ ] Egos [x] Tens and tens of millions of dollars Anderson Silva makes millions upon millions of dollars per fight, why would he want to change that? Why would his manager which likely gets a percentage want to change that?

Are you serious? Silva could make much more money if he took risks, how much do you think the UFC would be willing to pay for some superfights like Silva vs GSP or Silva vs any good LHW, who gives a shit about Middle weight now, the division is absolutely clean, Silva will retire beating on chumps.

since when is phil davis prelim material, as usual WAR LAUZON!

this is a really good free card, way better then the most recent PPV with faber

Untill Jones actually moves up and fights top HW's it's all speculation. I think the only 205'er anderson silva prob wont fight is exactly jon jones, I think he would gladly fight anyone else

I wouldn't mind seeing Anderson vs. Shogun at 205.

Shogun wouldn't get submitted, and while Anderson is faster and more technical with his overall striking, Shogun has a good chin, can take a lot of punishment, and always moves forward and keeps up the pressure.

fighters can't really retire without "pushing it". ive never heard of any fighter in the history of combat sports who just quit while they were so ahead. he will eventually fight a younger guy who will bash his head in. fighting is all theyve done and they only really quit when they cant do it anymore.

On August 01 2012 23:37 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On August 01 2012 22:37 taco wrote:   On August 01 2012 20:58 Baalim wrote: Hopefully he does, its pathetic that their egos about being undefeated and shit is more important than to challenge themselves. [ ] Egos [x] Tens and tens of millions of dollars Anderson Silva makes millions upon millions of dollars per fight, why would he want to change that? Why would his manager which likely gets a percentage want to change that? Are you serious? Silva could make much more money if he took risks, how much do you think the UFC would be willing to pay for some superfights like Silva vs GSP or Silva vs any good LHW, who gives a shit about Middle weight now, the division is absolutely clean, Silva will retire beating on chumps.

it's all about risk/reward ratio
yes, he can make a lot of money in a single fight vs. JJ or GSP, but lets say he loses and that will prob hurt his long term winnings, selling less PPVs or getting less money from sponsors, etc

On August 02 2012 00:56 TalentedTom wrote: Untill Jones actually moves up and fights top HW's it's all speculation. I think the only 205'er anderson silva prob wont fight is exactly jon jones, I think he would gladly fight anyone else

I believe they were trying to get him to fight at 205 before Jones was even a contender. Back when Silva was fighting guys like thales leites and cote. The only ones he would fight were guys like Irvin & forest. He wouldn't fight any contenders though. I believe his reasoning being that Machida was his BFF.

Kinda like Jones his his BFF now.

I obviously don't think Silva is scared of any man alive, I just believe he tries to take the path of least resistance while getting paid.

I'm ok with giving Gustafson one or two more fights before the title shot. I'd like him vs Bader but I find it hard to see how they would make that fight (Bader would have to beat Machida without getting a title shot). Rematch with Davis would be cool too but they train together and seem to genuinely like each other so that's probably a no go.

I guess the winner out of Shogun/Vera/Bader/Machida that looks least impressive seems like a good one. I think him vs Shogun would be a cool fight but unfortunately the hardest thing to deal with in that match up would probably be leg kicks and maaaaybe the clinch (if Shogun gets close enough) which doesn't say much about his chances vs Jones. Machida vs Gustafsson could turn into a huge snoozefest considering both being happy running around finding ranges and such but on the other hand Machida might be forced to engage and get some more ring time vs someone with huge reach.

Vera trains with Alex and Davis so that's not a go even if he happens to win vs Shogun (heh) but Bader probably has very low chances of beating Gustafsson. Wrestlers needs to be explosive as hell to get him down much and I feel that only Rashad and Jones would be able to wrestlefuck him and I'm not even sure about Rashad considering how small he is.

I am obviously a huge Gustafsson nuthugger, but I really feel he should get a fight or two more before he fights with Jones. Both to turn him into more of a draw and also to make sure that he's in the best possible position to make a good fight out of it.

On August 01 2012 23:37 Baalim wrote: Are you serious? Silva could make much more money if he took risks,

I could make more money by jumping off the Empire State... I could also lose all my money and more.

The two of them, GSP and AS, would never want to fight each other. They risk far too much money as a pair doing it.

is it even worth making a thread for this division... I think we can all agree noone deserves a shot against jones atm... just wait for new tallent like gustafson to show up and then give them a shot.

On August 02 2012 01:03 whamm! wrote: fighters can't really retire without "pushing it". ive never heard of any fighter in the history of combat sports who just quit while they were so ahead. he will eventually fight a younger guy who will bash his head in. fighting is all theyve done and they only really quit when they cant do it anymore.

totally wrong, some do some dont, do you think Mayweather is concerned about challenging himself or about making money and retire undefeated?

On August 02 2012 11:54 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On August 01 2012 23:37 Baalim wrote: Are you serious? Silva could make much more money if he took risks, I could make more money by jumping off the Empire State... I could also lose all my money and more. The two of them, GSP and AS, would never want to fight each other. They risk far too much money as a pair doing it.

The risk is not on money but prestige.

Do you think Dana is willing to pay Silva more vs Wiedman than vs Shogun? Silva could go and beat on the big guys but there is a risk he exposes himself as not being as dominant as people tought he was because of his size.


This is the reason why Fedor is the greatest ever, i mean he has shorter range than Silva and is the same height and yet he fought with fucking giants in heavy weight and destroyed them for nearly all his career while he trained in his backyard, the day Anderson Silva moves up and battles with the big buys then he will stop being a sportsman and he will become a warrior

a gsp vs silva or silva vs jones fight would be such a stupidly huge draw that, if money was all that mattered to the athletes, it would be ridiculous to not get the fight set up.
i think it's a step that everyone is just a little afraid to take right now

On August 02 2012 19:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On August 02 2012 01:03 whamm! wrote: fighters can't really retire without "pushing it". ive never heard of any fighter in the history of combat sports who just quit while they were so ahead. he will eventually fight a younger guy who will bash his head in. fighting is all theyve done and they only really quit when they cant do it anymore. totally wrong, some do some dont, do you think Mayweather is concerned about challenging himself or about making money and retire undefeated?

i disagree. name one fighter who just hung up his gloves after being conclusively the best of all time (or at least during his tenure), without being dead or getting beat down by some new guy. Ali, Louis, Dempsey, Leonard - every single one of them.
it becomes less about the money as they age and lose their faculties, and more about their own insecurities of about "still" having it. its ridiculously tough to just hang around the house compared to
being on top of the world being the baddest on the planet. mayweather has already come out of retirement once, Pac and Mayweather will eventually happen, and either one will keep fighting until someone
comes around and beats their ass when they're old. fighting being a unique individual sport, plays on ones ego the most, because there's nothing more satisfying than being the toughest person in the world.

these superfights like AS vs JJ are clearly -EV for each fighter, and its not even close. Jon Jones even admits that one major reason he doesn't fight AS is because the risks outweight the potential upside. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/7/10/...silva-we-could-both-lose-sponsorships

Deep down, I bet these guys would like to fight for reasons you mentioned, but they aren't because they'd rather make the correct financial decision.

It's also -EV for the UFC - they go in with two superstars and leave with one superstar.

On August 02 2012 22:39 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: these superfights like AS vs JJ are clearly -EV for each fighter, and its not even close. Jon Jones even admits that one major reason he doesn't fight AS is because the risks outweight the potential upside. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/7/10/...silva-we-could-both-lose-sponsorships Deep down, I bet these guys would like to fight for reasons you mentioned, but they aren't because they'd rather make the correct financial decision. It's also -EV for the UFC - they go in with two superstars and leave with one superstar.

Yes i never said it was a smart move for a fighter, but its not money the motivation, Anderson Silva isnt afraid of a 10% income cut, he is afraid of getting the shit kicked out by bigger guys totally destroying his image and legacy in his mind.


How this isnt obvious to anybody, Silva isnt Jones, its not an upcoming career, he could get way more money if he talked with Dana and arranged super fights, they are more profitable to ZUFFA than stupid Weidman, so again its not about money its about Silva retiring as "the best p2p in the world"

If Silva is already regarded as the best p4p fighter in the world then what does he have to gain by picking a fight with jones, especially since he would probably lose?

On August 03 2012 02:55 teej1985 wrote: If Silva is already regarded as the best p4p fighter in the world then what does he have to gain by picking a fight with jones, especially since he would probably lose?

thanks for proving my point, its all about what is he regarded as

But given he will probably lose it seems rational on his part. Why would he want to potentially expose himself?

I definately respect guys like Dan Henderson/bj penn etc who WANT to fight the best of the best for the challenge, but GSP/Silva end up with way more money/fame/records etc so you cant really blame people for playing it safe when they are already at the very top and dont have much to gain by taking risks

^i think it's easier to do that when you lose a few as you no longer have anything to lose by doing such a thing.

also the mind part of people like AS who haven't lost in so long must be scary!

On August 03 2012 03:25 teej1985 wrote: I definately respect guys like Dan Henderson/bj penn etc who WANT to fight the best of the best for the challenge, but GSP/Silva end up with way more money/fame/records etc so you cant really blame people for playing it safe when they are already at the very top and dont have much to gain by taking risks

i understand why they do it, i just dont respect it, who gives a shit about undefeated and records and their ego trips, i want to see Silva have epic battles.

Weigh-ins start at 18:00 LP.net.

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 03 2012 05:07 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On August 03 2012 03:25 teej1985 wrote: I definately respect guys like Dan Henderson/bj penn etc who WANT to fight the best of the best for the challenge, but GSP/Silva end up with way more money/fame/records etc so you cant really blame people for playing it safe when they are already at the very top and dont have much to gain by taking risks i understand why they do it, i just dont respect it, who gives a shit about undefeated and records and their ego trips, i want to see Silva have epic battles.

agreed

Playing it safe? Silva already said he wants to fight GSP who is the 2nd toughest non-heavyweight in the world. He could just stay within his weight class and kick around Bisping and Tim Boetsch until he retires. GSP still has some tough fights left in his division and always has, so you can't blame him for not changing weight classes.

anderson wouldnt last 5 minutes with jones. its such an easy style matchup for jon. anderson has underrated takedown defense, but he wouldnt be able to stop anything from jon. and once jon is on top of you the fight is over pretty much immediately. anderson has a godly chin but not even he could survive those elbows. he may swivel around to safety but jon would probably submit him if that happened. id bet on jones up to -400 here.

anderson would probably wreck GSP. some chance GSP wins a decision, but the problem is that GSP doesnt finish people and all anderson needs is 1 mistake to capitalize on. i think anderson wins a fight that looks very similar to silva/sonnen 2. id probably bet on anderson up to -175 here.


as for the fights tomorrow the key thing is that vera has no heart and shogun is pure heart. vera will crack under that sort of pressure. shogun is too tough to get finished by brandon and once vera realizes hes facing someone who is more determined than anyone he has ever faced he will just throw in the towel and give up. he just doesnt have the testicular fortitute to fight shogun. style and skill wise he can compete with a broken down shogun and should have some chance to win. but he is not mentally capable of it. ill probably end up placing a small bet on shogun by TKO just counting on him quitting at some point.

other than that betting on machida/davis parlay, rani yahya, moraga, nam phan and gonna try to bet on phil davis by submission as well.

On August 03 2012 10:19 PuertoRican wrote: Weigh-ins start at 18:00 LP.net. + Show Spoiler + Andrei Arlovski vs. Tim Sylvia @ One FC on August 31st.

Hmm Machida drinking some liquid before getting on the scale, then weighs in at 201, some thoughts of MW perhaps.

yeah, wtf with machida
I was going to bet on a parlay, Shogun + Machida + Davis but I thought it was weird that he only weight 201, plus he was drinking some liquids before

dont read too much into it. hes a small LHW that was probably planning on being 204 at weighins but took a big shit an hour before them

On August 03 2012 11:44 SleepyHead wrote: Playing it safe? Silva already said he wants to fight GSP who is the 2nd toughest non-heavyweight in the world. He could just stay within his weight class and kick around Bisping and Tim Boetsch until he retires. GSP still has some tough fights left in his division and always has, so you can't blame him for not changing weight classes.

yeah what a warrior, he is willing to fight even smaller fighters than he currently is fighting...

UFC on Fox: Shogun vs. Vera = 201 pounds
UFC 140 = 204 pounds
UFC 129 = 204.5 pounds
UFC 123 = 205 pounds
UFC 113 = 205 pounds

I like the idea of fading nam phan here, but it just sucks that the other guy isnt an underdog. hate* laying juice since its hard for me to justify it. my only angle would be that I think phan is due to flop/asian'ed out of this fight and i dont know who cole miller is as well

no one thinks the odds on bader machida fight are wrong? its paying so much for bader, i think machida is a fav but the odds are making him huge fav

i get that the tito loss screwed bader up but he changed his team setting and looked much better afterwards

I bet Machida at -300 so I guess that means I disagree.

Starts in 1.5 hours.

On August 03 2012 19:23 Daut wrote: dont read too much into it. hes a small LHW that was probably planning on being 204 at weighins but took a big shit an hour before them

rofl 2 pound shit, you may as well put a name on it :D

http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/64944/1/uf...-prelims-only-live-stream-online.html

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Sweet striking by Moraga.

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Nice submission by Yahya. I was wondering why he was +175 vs. Grispi's -200.

Getting smashed on my bets

my parlay will be cancelled or im busto ?

Parlay shoud be active but without this fight.

If you havd 1.2, 2.1, 1.7, 1.4 and theres a no contest on the 1.7, its just the other ones that count, if you get them right.

At least i think its like that.

No idea, but that sucks for Prado.

This also sucks for Phil Davis, as we still haven't seen much of him for awhile. He only fought 1 time in 2011, where he beat Lil Nog via unanimous decision. He lost to Rashad Evans for unanimous decision in 2012 where both of them didn't look all that great, and now he gets a No Contest due to eye poke.

Good thing Davis is only 27 years old, cuz he wont see a title shot for at least 2 years.

On August 04 2012 18:07 drone666 wrote: my parlay will be cancelled or im busto ?

No contest should result in no-action or a push which will (assuming it's a 4-team parlay) drop it to a 3-team parlay

Anyone have a stream to the main events handy?

http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/45830/1/uf...hogun-vs-vera-live-stream-online.html

Anyone taking Lauzon?

Thanks

How had the Davis fight been going before the eye poke? Was grocery shopping and missed it.

What a tragedy that it ended like that though, had great entertainment value potential.

dont necessariyl agree with nam phan winning that. seemed a lot like cole miller controlled the fight like how condit beat nick diaz with tons of aggressive striking and controlling the distance or w/e. i think the crowd played a bit into the split decision b/c every time he connected it was like kevin durant hitting a 3 pointer @ okc home

What an awesome finish by Swick.

Nice by Swick. I think he might of been in trouble if it went to the 3rd round, he still looks rusty as he said he would be.

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Sick submission by Lauzon, he would have lost the fight via UD if he didn't slap that triangle on.

This fight was just not entertaining imo but what can you expect from Brandon Vera.

Shogun gasses after 1 round, im not impressed

This is a terrible showing by Shogun.

After Vera locked in the choke in round 1, Shogun seemed tired after he got out of it.

that was so bad LOL

i really hope they give the title shot to machida he deserves it!

So sad that shogun has a weak cardio, he could be really good if he didn't gas so fast!

- Dana just said that Machida gets the winner of Jones/Henderson.

$50,000 for each bonus

Knockout of the Night: Mike Swick
Submission of the Night: Joe Lauzon
Fight of the Night: Joe Lauzon vs. Jamie Varner

Rua is too old school, time to retire.

So fucking awkward for the UFC to now have two divisions locked up in public uninterest,
both the Silva and Jones have ruined the division's competitiveness.

Who actually wants to pay to see Jones completely smash Machida 3 fights after he completely dominated him?

Who really believes that a 60 year old dude that hasn't improved in 10 years is now, 9 months later,
any more of a challenge for a much-faster-improving Jones than last time?

Crazy awkward for the UFC.

Is jon jones really unbeatable or are there just too few people who are both WILLING to fight / incapable of beating him?

its just like boxing. only problem is they run it like its the WWE that we get to see uber exciting fights each month and championship fights always have that drama element. this is why boxing critics say that the UFC shows way too many PPVs.

60 year old? What in the world are you talking about taco? Machida is the one guy in that division who has the tools to beat Jones.

that was fucking sad to watch

no longer a shogun fan

On August 04 2012 22:56 RaiNKhAN wrote: Is jon jones really unbeatable or are there just too few people who are both WILLING to fight / incapable of beating him?

the only person capable of "beating" jones is machida. if machida fought a 100% perfect fight and made no mistakes he could win 3 rounds off jones. thats pretty unlikely but in the realm of possibility. sure jones is still -400 or -500 against him, but its the only rematch i care to see jones have at 205 before moving up.

nobody else at 205 can do that. there are a few guys like hendo who could get really lucky and finish him but flash KO type stuff like that is just an outlier. nobody else is capable of fighting with him

Goddamit I would pay premium to see Silva vs Jones. Fuck hendo. Machida will make me watch it for free since he's a nit and evades strikes so it'll probably be worth watching.
Jones is just way to strong in the clinch or ground the only way is to keep it standing for it to be entertaining (then you have to face his insane reach and creative striking) heh
Silva is just so good at standup no living human can beat him currently in that department.

On August 04 2012 23:24 SleepyHead wrote: 60 year old? What in the world are you talking about taco? Machida is the one guy in that division who has the tools to beat Jones.

I don't think it's unreasonable to exaggerate so heavily when the age difference is what, 9 years?

When most fighters' careers are only slightly longer than that, and he already outskills him?

I think Gustafsson has more of a chance and Hendo, and I don't think he has much of a chance.

Argument would go: Potentially as much or at least close to as much power, better reach, better size and probably at a better age.

That said Hendo has more of an X factor in his "auro" or whatever. Dude KTFO Fedor for god's sake.

i dont think white guys will have a chance in MMA championships in general as the years progress. it's going to be lots of black guys given the opportunity to wrestle in college or strikers from brazil. dumb statement but if I'm just being honest...

On August 05 2012 02:49 whamm! wrote: i dont think white guys will have a chance in MMA championships in general as the years progress. it's going to be lots of black guys given the opportunity to wrestle in college or strikers from brazil. dumb statement but if I'm just being honest...

We definitely won't see much of this retarded white low-skill "tough guy" build that some fighters
have gone for (Brandon Vera, Roy Nelson, Heath Herring, Matt Hamill, Tim Boetsch etc).
Relying on your chin, toughness and heart will simply stop working (At least for the white guys).

Not hating with the 'low-skill' description but tbh none of these guys is even decently well rounded.

if you count dominick cruz as non-white then you are right whamm

Wasn't Herring pretty good?

ok brown black. cruz is like cruz right? lol

On August 05 2012 06:03 DustySwedeDude wrote: Wasn't Herring pretty good?

Lolwtf no.

He just barely managed to scrape together some success with the aforementioned method.

On August 05 2012 00:07 whamm! wrote: Goddamit I would pay premium to see Silva vs Jones. Fuck hendo. Machida will make me watch it for free since he's a nit and evades strikes so it'll probably be worth watching. Jones is just way to strong in the clinch or ground the only way is to keep it standing for it to be entertaining (then you have to face his insane reach and creative striking) heh Silva is just so good at standup no living human can beat him currently in that department.

I think its way more likely to see a jones vs cigano than jones vs silva

dos santos would absolutely murder jon jones

+ Show Spoiler +

I just watched shogun's fight and yea I do agree that he gassed realy fast but that's something you can work on
beside that ... techincaly speaking, he is sick one of the most complete fighters probably
and he has a hell of a chin
I don't think his time is over, look at his fight vs hendo... probably the best fight ever ... and he can give a lot of good matches more
he just needs to work on his endurance

Well I do agree that he has a lot of variety to offer, but he leaves so many openings that It's hard to say his style is technical. He's more like a brawler tbh.

rofl

If vera didnt take a nap on shoguns chest he would have had a great opportunity to turn the fight around

no longer a Shogun fan too, that was pathetic, great display by machida, he seems way more confident in his striking he is looking like a less skilled Anderson Silva, sick accuracy on those counters.

Silva is the only pride fighter worthy of having any fans

On August 06 2012 01:51 whamm! wrote: Silva is the only pride fighter worthy of having any fans

what a retarded thing to say