10/20 get c/r on river - Page 3

On July 19 2012 14:19 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 19 2012 05:05 handbanana21 wrote: Jesus i hate your undertones... I cant believe anyone even bothered to give you insight. what i said wrong? ...i've been giving everybody else tons of insight in like every thread.

No, your assumption that it was a clear call/fold is simply wrong and when people said it you reacted like a moron.

fold is way worse than raising

On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime.

You folded. Come and play me anytime.



lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not.

This is probably Marshall's goofy way to troll LP.net...

Herp derp, you got us!

On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not.

What would have been the proper way to respond? Hevad told me straight up that if I was going to say I had the right fold I would get trolled, then I told him screw it, I won't post any result at all, in which he replied to me that I had it all wrong and that no one was going to judge me.

So when Liu starts claiming that the games are easy nowadays and that a fold is terrible, lol of course I would like to play him. He doesn't have as much experience as I do if he doesn't understand what's going on. I'm a favorite ... what am I supposed to say, "omg u made so much more than me, u must be way better" and gnaw on his nuts? The dude has been so weird since the day I met him anyways.

He yells down the hallway "JENNIFER TILLY IS FAT" when she is 30 yards away. Then we hang out and talk poker for like an hour straight ... then a year or so later he acts like he's never met me before....whatever dude...

On July 23 2012 01:42 JonnyCosMo wrote: This is probably Marshall's goofy way to troll LP.net... Herp derp, you got us!

cuz my read was right and everybody who is "assumed" to be good was wrong, im all of a sudden trolling? ... i havent posted here in many years, why would i come back now to bother with one stupid hand where .. even if i was wrong in my fold, i would have posted that i was wrong. i just happened to be right, what am i supposed to do, lie? not ever post any hands ever? ... just cuz i was right im trolling? ... whatever dude.

On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not.

never wanted anybody;s help, figured id see what other "good" players would do.

but if u wanna play, obv i wont back down ... i would only prefer not to play a few players that post here ... those of which never responded in any serious manner to this thread....id avoid pooruser, talentedtom, andrewsong, i'd play anybody else who made a serious post in this thread

On July 23 2012 05:26 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote:   On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not. never wanted anybody;s help, figured id see what other "good" players would do. but if u wanna play, obv i wont back down ... i would only prefer not to play a few players that post here ... those of which never responded in any serious manner to this thread....id avoid pooruser, talentedtom, andrewsong, i'd play anybody else who made a serious post in this thread

posting something for no reason other than a reaction = trolling


i stand by its a just call. if he had just bombed all in then i would probably fold. removes weak value/any bluffs from his range and gives you much worse odds. but here when he less than 3x's it over you i find it hard to believe youre not good 1 in 3.5. weakish value can definitely be in there as is the small chance he turns something like T9/AT into a bluff. i certainly dont fistpump call here, its more an "FML im probably beat, but i have to call here"

just running some quick numbers, if we give him all 3 AA, all 3 99 and the 1 77 we only need him to show up with 3 other combos here to make this call ok. if we give him the A7cc 50%, the 97ss 50%, the one remaining 87ss we only need him to turn a hand into a bluff like 1 in 10 probably to call. thats also ignoring thin value which isnt likely but possible when he makes it 1500 more instead of jamming or bigger.

im the king of making big folds in spots like this. even when youre losing to only 7 combos of hands that he might play differently i still believe you can find folds in spots when you dissect information well enough. but i dont think this is one of those cases. needing to beat only 3 combos is absurdly low, especially when you can possibly beat value hands



as to the other shit in this thread, marshall is very good. i watched one of his CR videos and he played great and had good logic behind everything he did. not sure why this is turning into a bashing fest between good players. if you guys want to grudge match hu be my guest, it will be fun to watch

On July 23 2012 11:09 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2012 05:26 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote:   On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not. never wanted anybody;s help, figured id see what other "good" players would do. but if u wanna play, obv i wont back down ... i would only prefer not to play a few players that post here ... those of which never responded in any serious manner to this thread....id avoid pooruser, talentedtom, andrewsong, i'd play anybody else who made a serious post in this thread posting something for no reason other than a reaction = trolling i stand by its a just call. if he had just bombed all in then i would probably fold. removes weak value/any bluffs from his range and gives you much worse odds. but here when he less than 3x's it over you i find it hard to believe youre not good 1 in 3.5. weakish value can definitely be in there as is the small chance he turns something like T9/AT into a bluff. i certainly dont fistpump call here, its more an "FML im probably beat, but i have to call here" just running some quick numbers, if we give him all 3 AA, all 3 99 and the 1 77 we only need him to show up with 3 other combos here to make this call ok. if we give him the A7cc 50%, the 97ss 50%, the one remaining 87ss we only need him to turn a hand into a bluff like 1 in 10 probably to call. thats also ignoring thin value which isnt likely but possible when he makes it 1500 more instead of jamming or bigger. im the king of making big folds in spots like this. even when youre losing to only 7 combos of hands that he might play differently i still believe you can find folds in spots when you dissect information well enough. but i dont think this is one of those cases. needing to beat only 3 combos is absurdly low, especially when you can possibly beat value hands as to the other shit in this thread, marshall is very good. i watched one of his CR videos and he played great and had good logic behind everything he did. not sure why this is turning into a bashing fest between good players. if you guys want to grudge match hu be my guest, it will be fun to watch

I very well could have been wrong and the guy could have shown up with something else....I didn't fold then was like "100% I made a good fold". If I knew the result of the hand prior to posting then I think what you are calling trolling is what I'd have done, but that's just not what happened.

Anyways, thanks for backing me up here, I definitely appreciate that.

On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not.

I was looking for a serious discussion. The only person providing one at all at this point is Daut.

and I know all of you guys would whoop my ass at plo.

On July 23 2012 11:09 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2012 05:26 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote:   On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not. never wanted anybody;s help, figured id see what other "good" players would do. but if u wanna play, obv i wont back down ... i would only prefer not to play a few players that post here ... those of which never responded in any serious manner to this thread....id avoid pooruser, talentedtom, andrewsong, i'd play anybody else who made a serious post in this thread posting something for no reason other than a reaction = trolling i stand by its a just call. if he had just bombed all in then i would probably fold. removes weak value/any bluffs from his range and gives you much worse odds. but here when he less than 3x's it over you i find it hard to believe youre not good 1 in 3.5. weakish value can definitely be in there as is the small chance he turns something like T9/AT into a bluff. i certainly dont fistpump call here, its more an "FML im probably beat, but i have to call here" just running some quick numbers, if we give him all 3 AA, all 3 99 and the 1 77 we only need him to show up with 3 other combos here to make this call ok. if we give him the A7cc 50%, the 97ss 50%, the one remaining 87ss we only need him to turn a hand into a bluff like 1 in 10 probably to call. thats also ignoring thin value which isnt likely but possible when he makes it 1500 more instead of jamming or bigger. im the king of making big folds in spots like this. even when youre losing to only 7 combos of hands that he might play differently i still believe you can find folds in spots when you dissect information well enough. but i dont think this is one of those cases. needing to beat only 3 combos is absurdly low, especially when you can possibly beat value hands as to the other shit in this thread, marshall is very good. i watched one of his CR videos and he played great and had good logic behind everything he did. not sure why this is turning into a bashing fest between good players. if you guys want to grudge match hu be my guest, it will be fun to watch

What is wrong with you? -_-;; Are you trolling me too?

You have a FULL HOUSE when you are "READLESS" on Villan.

FFS how does money not fly in here w/ given information.

Im pretty sure PU, Andrew and Tom dont fold here either, and what the fuck does that peachy rant have to do with this discussion?!

On July 23 2012 12:19 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2012 11:09 Daut wrote:   On July 23 2012 05:26 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 23 2012 00:39 Baalim wrote:   On July 22 2012 23:50 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On July 22 2012 20:45 n0rthf4ce wrote: this is how online is played these days? i can just c/r turn anything into a bluff on riv and any one of you folds the tip top of your range? need to start playing on stars again if this is the case --; Lol if u seriously wanna jam this river all in. Come and play me anytime. You folded. Come and play me anytime. lol why do we even bother helping this guy out? fuck him, i thought he changed, guess not. never wanted anybody;s help, figured id see what other "good" players would do. but if u wanna play, obv i wont back down ... i would only prefer not to play a few players that post here ... those of which never responded in any serious manner to this thread....id avoid pooruser, talentedtom, andrewsong, i'd play anybody else who made a serious post in this thread posting something for no reason other than a reaction = trolling i stand by its a just call. if he had just bombed all in then i would probably fold. removes weak value/any bluffs from his range and gives you much worse odds. but here when he less than 3x's it over you i find it hard to believe youre not good 1 in 3.5. weakish value can definitely be in there as is the small chance he turns something like T9/AT into a bluff. i certainly dont fistpump call here, its more an "FML im probably beat, but i have to call here" just running some quick numbers, if we give him all 3 AA, all 3 99 and the 1 77 we only need him to show up with 3 other combos here to make this call ok. if we give him the A7cc 50%, the 97ss 50%, the one remaining 87ss we only need him to turn a hand into a bluff like 1 in 10 probably to call. thats also ignoring thin value which isnt likely but possible when he makes it 1500 more instead of jamming or bigger. im the king of making big folds in spots like this. even when youre losing to only 7 combos of hands that he might play differently i still believe you can find folds in spots when you dissect information well enough. but i dont think this is one of those cases. needing to beat only 3 combos is absurdly low, especially when you can possibly beat value hands as to the other shit in this thread, marshall is very good. i watched one of his CR videos and he played great and had good logic behind everything he did. not sure why this is turning into a bashing fest between good players. if you guys want to grudge match hu be my guest, it will be fun to watch What is wrong with you? -_-;; Are you trolling me too? You have a FULL HOUSE when you are "READLESS" on Villan. FFS how does money not fly in here w/ given information.

I'd repost the same question that I asked to fayth.....

Give me a reasonable thought process for how villain gets to this point and makes this play with a worse hand for value.

How does he get to this spot with a hand that is reasonable to now turn into a bluff.

----------

Anybody who plays only live would not be able to define ranges as narrowly as I'm able to in a 10/20NL online game @ 2012 given UTG opened and I flatted MP.....

My flatting range in this spot includes these hands and these hands only:
AA-66, AK, AQ, KQs, JTs-67s

Flop As8c7d

When chkd to I'm going to bet 88,77, 78, AK, AQ for value (prob chk AA). I'm going to bluff w/ KQs, JTs, T9s, sometimes 67s, sometimes 66.

After villain calls and the turn is 9c then he chks, hands I'm going to continue betting are.... almost all of them. I chkd back 89 but that has 2pr so now I'm betting. KQcc I'll continue betting, other KQs give up. JT now has a straight, 67 probably keeps bluffing because I have an open ender, 66 probably keeps bluffing too for the same reason.

Villain calls, river is a 7s.... what hands am I still betting for value? 77, 88, JT, AK/AQ, 99. If villain knows my range here ... he realizes, IT'S REALLY STRONG. Only somewhat thin value bets are AK/AQ, so maybe he thinks he can get me off of those hands if he c/r bluffs. But if he was so worried about me having those hands and him being beat, he's almost always just going to fold and not turn his hand into a bluff because clearly my range is so strong here and like everyone here thinks, no one is going to fold very often with such a strong range to a c/r bluff.

So what hands can he get to this point with after c/c twice?

Most obvious ones in my mind are AA and 99. AA slowplaying flop and turn (seems like a bad play to me but people make dumb plays all the time), 99 is clearly the most obvious. It c/c the flop cuz it thinks no better hand folds and no worse hand calls (which isn't necessarily true but I can see why he'd think that). If he has KK or QQ I could see him c/c once or even twice, but at this river, cuz it seems so unlikely I'm folding to a c/r, seems like a pretty awful spot for him to consider one would work.

Anything anybody said about guys having 67 or JT is just ridiculous. Like I said previously, if a good player c/c this flop w/ 67, he's 100% going to c/r or fold this turn given how strong my range is and how he picks up additional equity. 97 is not in any good regs UTG 3x opening range -- EVER -- It's too weak a hand to make a long term profit so I'm just going to ignore the fact that he could even have it. If he has AJ or AQ, he's going to think about either calling or folding. If he has TT it's kind of the same thought process along the lines of 67... his hand is toast on the turn, but it could be a good spot to c/r bluff with that hand.

So pretty much I think every time he's bluffing I'm going to hear from him on the turn--after all, that's when the board gets most draw heavy and also the point where he can represent the most semi-bluffs in order to get me to call down light.

Had this guy c/r this turn w/ 99 then jammed the river, pretty sure he 100% gets my whole stack, but clearly he's not that good.

So that's my thoughts. None of it is trolling, ranges are just far more defined nowadays than when you used to play.

On July 23 2012 13:34 EvilSky wrote: Im pretty sure PU, Andrew and Tom dont fold here either, and what the fuck does that peachy rant have to do with this discussion?!

he implied i'm a donk and that the games were super easy if I'll just fold everything but the 2nd nuts to a river c/r when he's just being an idiot when his suggestion to jam the river over the c/r is major spew. guess i could have ignored it, but i was looking for some kind of discussion and not someone swinging their e-peen.

I guess if I can assume the guy turns the occasional AJ or AQ into a bluff, then Daut's analysis quickly shows I should have considered calling much more than I did in the hand -- I was really expecting a c/r and ready to fold to it before it happened. I need to count combos more and learn how to use pot odds to help these decisions, I'm such a math donk : [

On July 23 2012 14:06 MARSHALL28 wrote: Anything anybody said about guys having 67 or JT is just ridiculous. Like I said previously, if a good player c/c this flop w/ 67, he's 100% going to c/r or fold this turn given how strong my range is and how he picks up additional equity.

Why? You're apparently fully accepting he can c/c flop to bluff turn, but there's a 0% chance he c/c's turn to bluff river? I find that weird tricky plays tend to come in clumps fairly often.

97 is not in any good regs UTG 3x opening range -- EVER --

Just gotta flat out disagree with u there. It is probably a very small mistake to open it UTG, but its a small mistake the average reg makes more often than not.

On July 23 2012 20:02 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2012 14:06 MARSHALL28 wrote: Anything anybody said about guys having 67 or JT is just ridiculous. Like I said previously, if a good player c/c this flop w/ 67, he's 100% going to c/r or fold this turn given how strong my range is and how he picks up additional equity. Why? You're apparently fully accepting he can c/c flop to bluff turn, but there's a 0% chance he c/c's turn to bluff river? I find that weird tricky plays tend to come in clumps fairly often.

Well, the turn is the spot he will have the most semi-bluffs. If he was going to bluff ... I feel like it's going to be on that street, not the river--especially a board pairing river.

97 is not in any good regs UTG 3x opening range -- EVER --

Just gotta flat out disagree with u there. It is probably a very small mistake to open it UTG, but its a small mistake the average reg makes more often than not.

I can't remember the last time I played 5/10+ and saw someone whom I respect showdown 97s after opening UTG. Maybe you play in different games than I do.

stop assuming marshall28 has the ability to troll

he has always been this way. as much as he blogs like a faggot and claims to have changed he's always marshall28

NICE FOLD LOLOLOLOLOLOL

lolfold

On July 19 2012 05:05 handbanana21 wrote: Jesus i hate your undertones... I cant believe anyone even bothered to give you insight.

i really have no idea what im doing/saying wrong ... could somebody spell it out for me??? cuz apparently i just dont get it....

i had a hand i wanted to see what other ppl would do in the spot so i posted it ... i got some weird/bad responses so i replied that i thought they were wrong... this is bad form or something?

seriously ... im not leveling, i rly dont get it.