1/2 live spot; riverbluff

got bored of studying so went to check out a new cardroom. all they had running was 3 tables of 1/2.

anyway i brought homework and was carddead for the lasthr at this table so i look like a ridiculous nit. lots of joking at the table. I limped once, everyone noticed, villain says "wow you're in!". etc. I have been paying attention though. Let me know if anything in my thought process is off.

history is villain looks like a reg at another local casino, but 2 orbits ago flatted T6s MP vs my utg raise w/ following action:
-I opn 15 w 210 behind, mp2 calls, mp4(vill) calls T6s, flop is 4w and I showdown Tens on a 4AK-JQ board where I made a large valuebet. chopped.
so i put him in the sorta unknown bucket even tho i recognize him.

hand:
I iso a 100% hand playing fish's mp limp from HJ, he flats Bu. based on above hand and prev hist i think he's quite wide. Flop is Ax4s5s, I bet 30/45. he calls slowly. hu.
turn is Qo. chk, chk.
river is 8o. I bet 55/105 with intent to get him off everything that isn't an ace. targeting this range i think a smallish bet is ok; math wise the <30% I need could be somewhat close.
in retrospect I could agree with betting 25-35$ more with a legit chance of folding a weak ace. yes 67 got there but tons of stuff like pps, random floats, flushdraws, 4x,5x fold, some of which I beat, but i can't really c/c.

I like 55 on the river but iso-ing 100% against guys that don't like to fold is a bit spewy no?

On July 05 2012 17:16 Tensai176 wrote: I like 55 on the river but iso-ing 100% against guys that don't like to fold is a bit spewy no?

lol, he is not iso-ing 100%, he is isolating a fish who plays 100% of hands

well i don't know what your hand is, but i assume you have air. if you're going to bluff, i'd prefer betting turn. you would bet if you had an A, and the Q is a good scare card if he has a pocket pair or 4x, 5x since it's an overcard and you might bet river again too. checking turn then betting river is too easy for a fish to say 'all i have to do is call once and i see his cards!'. imo you're getting looked up here all the time with 86 or 87 if he has them, any better hand than 8x, and sometimes even worse. if you barrel turn, he is much more likely to fold those, but if he doesn't, you'll know he's this massively stationy fish and can easily adjust later. it's important to know if he's a 100% hand playing fish who just calls down with any pair, or he's folding a lot postflop since he has so many weak hands.

trying to let live randoms fold toppair regardless of betsize is like playing Bach to pigs.

Don't bother

+ you're repping super narrow, rarely super strong (in other words: never a hand like AT+ ) so I doubt you'll get folds

You really don't give enough info, and you might as well 3 barrel this flop if you think he is this wide

I hate this kind of play vs fish. Give up after flop and if you miss check it down unless you have some sort of tell that he will fold river.

I don't understand this stuff. Why are we not limping after this fish looking to actually hit something? Unless you had some sort of decent hand pf of course

That was a difficult read. So the board is.. A45Q8 and you want a halfsized pot bet on the river to get him off of anything but ace? And you think you could maybe get him off of a weak ace? When you didn't even bet the turn? I mean I guess you do have a nit image. But I feel like if the villain has A or Q he'll look you up for half the pot.

blanket response: I agreed w/ turnbarrel > bet chk bet and most of the other stuff wisdom said. will add that unbalanced sizings (large as a bluff) on that board is a good way to go live vs unknowns. w/ my image potting it would have been optimal. no gay bet small to shove river and make more money somehow shit.

rogier: sounds like ur just talking about that one sentence where I said vill might fold TP. i dont think it's common but it can happen, noting again my image at the table is nitty. i probably shouldn't have included that, since the line doesn't target tp. sorry.

highcard: what info would you have liked included, and what info would you have preferred I left out? typing out live hands is always a tricky balance between including the entire thought process and leaving out certain stuff for brevity. i didn't put a whole lot of work into making it readable. (yeah sorry arirang)
fwiw i think 3barreling is really bad. trying to be concise:
-if 2barreling is good what are we gonna make him fold river? also remember 100bb 1/2 stacks are like 50bb 2/4 or shallower when pf raise is 7x+. setting up triples is not like online.


results:
I tabled 22. He called w KJs and claimed he thought he had KQ.

I like it but for a little bit more. I agree you'll get looked up by an ace or a queen and I still think it's profitable against his range with the price you give yourself.

Oop. Misread that.

So you had 22 and owned him with a thin vbet? Raped.

You have been at this table for a long time and you can only tell me 1 single hand with the Villain and it's the 1 hand you played with him. If he is calling MP with 106s FR game, this guy must have been in a ridiculous amount of pots/SD.

You should be able to tell me if you think he slow plays sets, 2pairs, if he is passive with FD/STD/Guts, makes light river calls, calls flop/folds turn a lot, Shows down instead of thin value, does he station 3rd/2nd+ pairs?

or

at least know a couple of those things.

BUT even that doesn't matter the most, you never explained what actually happened in the HH with 1010. Did you bet/check/bet, check/check/bet ? I have no idea what actually happened.

So I read the thread title think, 'lol this could be interesting'

I'll pop the best piece of advice in this thread:

YOU ARE PLAYING LIVE 1/2 NL. NO ONE FOLDS.

/thread

Helpful discussion for this hand should revolve around how thin you can value bet this spot on the river. Like, should we value bet KQ here? Sure because no one folds!

I like it.
Thanks Cosmo.

also, random thoughts related to that:
-I don't have much of a c/c range here. I think this is fine unless vs really wider floaters. Then maybe TT+ is good.
-Inducing. Spots where you think his range is weaker than normal (say a physical impression + faster flop call on flushdraw board, flush misses), betting really small to get random retarded pairs to call + sometimes induce. Or this is 1/2, so fuck that shit.


comments on either?

If I'm vs an opponent where my future read on the hand is that he's is herp derp floating me I'm either barreling the turn after betting flop (and probably barreling river) a really high % of the time or just checking the flop to begin with. If you think that you will be losing too much money in the long run by giving up pots so easily, it's probably because your raising too many hands out of position vs an opponent who's flatting really wide in position. Tighten up your preflop game if someone is going to be loosey goosey in position like this.