Liquid Rising

I feel this should be posted here as well, just in case people didn't know.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347190

Documentary about Liquid =]

TL sux

>sc2 is boring
>TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity
>foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises
>who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

[ ] would watch

[x] knew about this
[ ] wanted to watch this

On June 29 2012 13:41 Arirang wrote: TL sux >sc2 is boring >TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity >foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises >who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

First one, just an opinion, which is fine. But kinda got the feeling you ment it as a statement, fact. Kind of like when I get questions about Fotball, I respond with, ah, it's very boring. Although for some people it's not.

Not sure what you mean with the second one, feels a bit stupid. Just a random insult, a lot of the most dedicated, most passionate people I know about "came" from the TL community.

Never before have "foreign" pro's been as good as they are in SC2, if you compare it to SC/BW, which is amazing. Biggest salaries have gone to Huk & Stephano, which seem pretty accurate to me.

And the last one is just lol, what's wrong with trying hard, not quitting, not giving up? Most of them are making a living out of doing something they are passionate about. Failing isn't the same in my vocabulary as in yours perhaps. Most of them have very impressive merits. Especially Huk, Hero and Ret.

The competition in that game is probably as fierce as anything you could think of in any other genre or sports. And the practice, level of competition keep increasing all the time.

My take on it.

I watched it and really liked it. I don't know if there are other documentaries about "esports" teams out there, but I love how TL has a sense of collectiveness in spite of playing an individual game. Also I'm sure that a lot of people can identify with the characters portrayed in the doc: the talented guy who doesn't put in the effort he should, the hard worker whose big result seems to be just around the corner, the guy who's been held back by things that he cannot change himself. Of course it's just a 100min doc so all of these things are treated very superficially, but it's a high quality documentary imo.

People usually just check the results of the matches, but have no clue how the players really are behind their aliases, and the movie addresses that really well. That being said I don't think it's for everyone. I think they have a very specific target as an audience and I'm quite sure that audience is very likely to like the product.

On June 29 2012 13:41 Arirang wrote: TL sux >sc2 is boring >TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity >foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises >who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

On June 29 2012 13:42 dogmeat wrote: [ ] would watch

On June 29 2012 13:43 Drakk wrote: [x] knew about this [ ] wanted to watch this

This is not 4chan or reddit, or whatever other site, please don't use those retarded checkboxes and ">".
Thanks.

thought it was cool. big + to anything that makes ESPORTS bigger

Yeah, it's an opinion as is with you thinking this game is great. And much like you, I find a lot of sports boring as well, but I respect the design of the game and its complexity, and its potential to become something even more amazing than what it is today. However, as for SC2, not only do I find it boring, I don't respect its game design at all. I genuinely find this game to be super mediocre and if it weren't for the franchise; Starcraft, it would not have garnered as much success as it had today. I view it more or less as a fraudulent success based on the most dedicated fans in video game history.

TL, much like any other big gaming hubs is full of players with shitty opinions that think they're too important (hey, kinda like me!). But they actually think their silver league bullshit is legit as long as their grammar is correct. Have you played any games with players from TL community? Horseshit bad. Largely because it's like a new hip thing to like SC2 and League of Legends (lol im such a nerd). No hate on that really, games are becoming more mainstream and that's great. But TL's mods ban for any sort of flame even if it's legit. Hence the celebration of mediocrity, where shit players run wild talking what they wanna say without some sensible person shutting them up. It's like Reddit. Fake nice, and circle jerkery. Imagine TalentedTom getting banned for his funny little remarks on dumb hands that gets posted.

Foreign pros have always struggled in SC scene, yes. And perhaps they are more successful now than they have ever been in SC history. Though, that's not saying much when none of the foreign pros really are anywhere in a global scale. I don't follow the scene much anymore, but a quick look at top 10 of S-Code shows me no foreigners. Hahaha, what a joke. Oh man, let's make a documentary about Joe Blow who failed upwards, yeah that's real interesting. You know, even when foreigners struggled in SC, Giyom was up there and so was Elky. Could we really say the same about current jokes we call pros. They consciously make the decision to leave Korea where competition is at its fiercest and get mad when Koreans enter MLG. You got jokes like this guy who is a sponsored pro: http://i.imgur.com/QPJw3.jpg. A lot of these frauds make enough money from streaming and I don't think they really care at getting better anymore. Now, I don't know that, but it sure feels like that when they dodge competition and leave Korea.

Tryhard is a pretty bad vocab, my mistake. In reality, the foreign pros don't really try hard at all. Back then, it was all about getting into Korea. That was the dream. Is it anymore? No foreigner really wants to go to Korea. It's too hard there to win. If that shit isn't lame I don't know what is. Welcome to dodge city. Let's look at another gaming scene; fighting games. Japan used to body US free in every tournament. For decades they've been doing that. But not anymore. US caught up because these players are legit, they play for real. There's not even any money in the scene, and the same players has been around for tens of years. They play for the love of the game and competition.

Can there be anything more boring and fake as SC2 scene? All this hype and excitment built on fraudulent players who are mediocre and have no love for the game?


Defrag, I only use ">" as a bulletpoint. Users commonly use this to footnote and such, so I don't know what the issue is. Don't be a nazi, thanks.

A mod who think he can dictate his rule without any explanation
and another one who show up once every month just to abuse his "mod power"

Guess what maybe there is a correlation with the fact LP dying.

edit: nope Pooruser , you cant just delete my post
you edited my previous post wth :' I suck" wich you answered with " you said it alright"
yes i know

fine i settled for deleting your inflammatory post that had nothing to do with the topic and was just you being a douchebag for douchebags sake. you have my deepest apologies.

back to OT plz

You can't act like nothing happened.
I've pm nazgul for public apologies and a demod.
and nope , apologies with douchebag twice in the same line won't do the trick

Found the documentary pretty interesting but thought it was lame that they were saying how all their players would be the best if they would just put in the work. Sounds cheesy and makes the team look like a bunch of slackers.

Teamliquid? Don't you guys mean Disneyland...........:[

edit: but really, TL went down the drain the second it became "big". Sounds lame, I know, but it's fact :/, mediocrity sums it up quite well.

Strictly speaking documentaries now; the main fault was at 15:09 and 16:44, it seems some people made some pretty retarded decisions there
when they should have just chilled the fuck out instead of acting on their totalitarian instincts. The one word edit at 15:09 was a classic.
It's as if the author thought it would give the whole thing less of an authoritative-look and more of a polite request type of deal, when really we know he had opinion-based tempbans in mind.

All in all this is heading to be a pretty bad documentary (Inside LiquidPoker: Mods all up in heah!)

Read through your response Arirang. Most points I disagree with, find it all to be a bit too pessimistic. Most things "are a joke, is lol, silly".

I found good games at TL when I played a bit of SC2 9-10 months ago, mostly High masters, also got a few games vs GM people, don't get what the fuss is about.

Pretty easy to "tell" the level of someone when you're at such a big forum, why "cling" to the people you don't see as your "peers", just skim past and stop at the ones you find cool, or people at your current level?

Koreans are godly, that doesn't mean that everyone else are pieces of shit. And there's always exceptions to the rule, if you look at the statistics it's not that bad. Even the best korean gamers of all time are acknowledging the best foreigners now, this hasn't happened before.

I do appreciate your romantic view of the past, in Starcraft/BW. Your example with Giyom and Elky. Mad respect to them, but I don't feel they were godly, I felt even I was equal in skill to Elky, he wasn't "that" good, there were a lot of people much better outside of korea than him. Slayer, Sven, SaFT, Blackman, Testie to name but a few.

Talking about "godlike", what about Slayer? Since he >>> whole of korea, and revolutionized everything, we should now not give the koreans any credit? That'd be pretty retarded.
What's wrong with the koreans being the God's of games, and a lot of people outside starting to catch up, and quite a few can now compete with them. Awesome if you ask me xD

On June 29 2012 13:41 Arirang wrote: TL sux >sc2 is boring >TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity >foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises >who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

i actually agree with this

On June 29 2012 17:58 Mariuslol wrote: Elky, he wasn't "that" good, there were a lot of people much better outside of korea than him. Slayer, Sven, SaFT, Blackman, Testie to name but a few.

Really? at a certain point in time I would have thought elky was better than all of them. I don't think that takes anything away from those other guys, maybe they would have been even better if they got a chance to train on a korean pro team.


About the documentary; it was hard for me to "get it" because I only know 2 people that were featured. I still thought it was interesting to see how TL's evolved over this time, because I basicly never checked it since LP came out. I mean, here we are talking about slayer, testie, blackman & elky... we're fans from a different era The guys on TL.net are loving this and that says a lot I think because they're the target audience.

Ugh, your response is a mess.

Grats to ignoring the fact that foreign pros are dodging competition and people love them still (hahaha).
Grats to giving shoutouts to a known maphacker LOL.
Grats for being as good as ElkY during his prime. Seriously, who cares if you were.
Grats to being wrong of the fact that foreigners are "catching up", when in reality, they were the closest during the beginning of SC2, and now they're being ditched behind again.

Grats for being that guy who supports this mess and buys into the hype of mediocrity.

eSports yehhhhh!

On June 29 2012 16:25 waga wrote: edit: nope Pooruser , you cant just delete my post you edited my previous post wth :' I suck" wich you answered with " you said it alright"

LOL

What annoys me about foreign progamers is that most of them are pretty lazy and don't really treat starcraft as a job and more as a hobby. Koreans are not just magically better at starcraft its just that they work so much harder and take it much more seriously. Foreigners focus more on entertainment than skill and they get paid way more than Koreans even though they don't accomplish jack shit. I respect guys like Naniwa, Huk, Sase because they are willing to put in the effort to become better and sacrificed a lot to move to Korea so that they can train hardcore. Lots of foreign "pros" today are still somewhat relevant because of beta where there wasn't that much of a skill gap but they haven't really improved yet they still get a lot of attention from the community because they can speak English


For the documentary I thought it was done poorly as it pretty much was a 90minute long interview. I can watch documentaries about almost anything and something about starcraft should have entertained me the whole thing but I had to stop watching just because it got so boring about the teammates just talking about each other. A documentary should have shown us what happens and not people telling us what happened. Didn't really learn anything new from the interviews about the team and it really didn't do a great job portraying starcraft to people that don't know anything about it which documentaries should be able to do.

this is just a trailer but it looks a lot more promising as a esports documentary

double post

Havnt watched it yet but it you dont appriciate TL and all its done for starcraft and esports in general you can just go fuck yourself you 12year old fucking unapriciative fucking cuntfuck(yes airang im looking at you)

ROFL. self delusional geeks.

>implying im not allowed to type this way

a fascinating documentary into the lives of young people with autism.

Interesting thread, feel like giving my 2 cent as well.

I liked SC2 in the beginning, both watching pros play and playing myself. Didnt take that long untill i kinda gave up playing (not only because i didnt like the game, it took time away from poker and studys as well) but i also stopped enjoying watching streams, nowdays i can only watch the TOP NOTCH games like MVP or MKP in a really big tourney like MLG or something, or i get insanely boored. What I'm hinting at is that yes i agree SC2 isnt a very good game neither for playing nor watching compared to brood war. Its simply overhyped.

I also feel like a lot of the foreigner pros are overpayed and kinda freerolling life without proving anything at all, sadly that goes for most of the TL-team (well i dont know what they are getting paid, but they get kept in the rooster and send worldwide to compete in tournaments without any results for forever). It hurts thinking that Idra is actually making a bunch of money of this game, comparting to what he said he would achieve in SC2 to what he actually did... LOL!

About TL, first of all i have to agree with SakiSaki, they have given us a lot in the past and big credz to them for that. They also gave us LP <3. But today they have grown to big, to many retards as anywhere when something gets more mainstream. I read a few selected threads, otherwise i stay far away from TL forums.

Lastly: Wow i got sick nerdchills from the past just reading the nicknames of Slayer, Sven, Saft and such, those were the times...

i beat slayer in sc1 once. boom

On June 29 2012 18:43 Arirang wrote: Ugh, your response is a mess. Grats to ignoring the fact that foreign pros are dodging competition and people love them still (hahaha). Grats to giving shoutouts to a known maphacker LOL. Grats for being as good as ElkY during his prime. Seriously, who cares if you were. Grats to being wrong of the fact that foreigners are "catching up", when in reality, they were the closest during the beginning of SC2, and now they're being ditched behind again. Grats for being that guy who supports this mess and buys into the hype of mediocrity. eSports yehhhhh!

Most pro's are doing the most +EV thing, and why in heavens name would you not love Stephano over any of the Koreans. The most loved Korean by far is MC, and that's because he's got som flair, personality to go with his skills. (Not dissing the other koreans, just saying they're a little passive).

Even though he was a maphacker, he was still better than 99,99% outside korea. And I knew he was maphacking 12-13 years ago. Flash once stood up and peaked over at one of his team mates once, durty maphacker him!! Roarr LOALEOAELEOL

Next one is just another insult, some shield you got there. Never ment it that way, just ment I was around the skill level of someone who could lose 2-4 to him, something along those lines. A slight over-exagerration to make a point. There were a lot of other people who were better who deserved to go. Just an opinion though.

And you're wrong on the next one as well, we were the closest when Stephano was ranked 2nd Zerg in the World, When Huk took 2 MLG's in a row and was showing strong showings in GSL at the same time.

Probably not much point responding at the last bit either, more insults. But I guess that makes you feel "less mediocre".

On June 29 2012 19:10 SakiSaki wrote: Havnt watched it yet but it you dont appriciate TL and all its done for starcraft and esports in general you can just go fuck yourself you 12year old fucking unapriciative fucking cuntfuck(yes airang im looking at you)

Seconded.

Arirang's a major douchebag. Topic is about a documentary and fucking cunt goes on a tirade against SC2 and teamliquid which has nothing to do with the topic. Then whines about moderating over at TL where they actually ban idiots like him making it a better place.

I agree with a lot of what Arirang is saying. Marius I think you just respect TL/Nazgul/Meat and the people who generated that great game of SC1 but what the game is now is just garbage. Arirang is def right about it being LOL that they glorify these pros who are still getting annihilated by koreans. The entire korean SC community hasn't even transferred into SC2 yet and just imagine how empty the foreigner scene will be once that happens in Korea

I still think they did an excellent job with the campaign and story line though. Man, I wish I could delete my memory of it and keep playing it over and over again in an infinite loop. Good times

^ yup

watching documentary now. barely know anyone in it besides naz/nony/day 9, but its enjoyable 15 minutes in

I don't agree with the negative posts here since they have failed to realize how SC2 sucks balls and it's not the documentary's fault.

I like watching SC2 games and I don't think it sucks balls. Obviously SC1 was better but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy SC2.

People are so negative/cynical all the time on this website.

On June 29 2012 20:46 whamm! wrote: I don't agree with the negative posts here since they have failed to realize how SC2 sucks balls and it's not the documentary's fault.

You actually watched it? Rofl

On June 29 2012 21:12 Twisted wrote: I like watching SC2 games and I don't think it sucks balls. Obviously SC1 was better but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy SC2. People are so negative/cynical all the time on this website.

Sad but true. And we dont even realize it. Yes I said we cos that includes me too.

On June 29 2012 21:12 Twisted wrote: I like watching SC2 games and I don't think it sucks balls. Obviously SC1 was better but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy SC2. People are so negative/cynical all the time on this website.

thats what the variance in poker does to us =)

^ you might be joking, but that could possibly be it. Everyone chasing the $$$ but just couldnt get enough.

On June 29 2012 15:48 Arirang wrote: Yeah, it's an opinion as is with you thinking this game is great. And much like you, I find a lot of sports boring as well, but I respect the design of the game and its complexity, and its potential to become something even more amazing than what it is today. However, as for SC2, not only do I find it boring, I don't respect its game design at all. I genuinely find this game to be super mediocre and if it weren't for the franchise; Starcraft, it would not have garnered as much success as it had today. I view it more or less as a fraudulent success based on the most dedicated fans in video game history. TL, much like any other big gaming hubs is full of players with shitty opinions that think they're too important (hey, kinda like me!). But they actually think their silver league bullshit is legit as long as their grammar is correct. Have you played any games with players from TL community? Horseshit bad. Largely because it's like a new hip thing to like SC2 and League of Legends (lol im such a nerd). No hate on that really, games are becoming more mainstream and that's great. But TL's mods ban for any sort of flame even if it's legit. Hence the celebration of mediocrity, where shit players run wild talking what they wanna say without some sensible person shutting them up. It's like Reddit. Fake nice, and circle jerkery. Imagine TalentedTom getting banned for his funny little remarks on dumb hands that gets posted. Foreign pros have always struggled in SC scene, yes. And perhaps they are more successful now than they have ever been in SC history. Though, that's not saying much when none of the foreign pros really are anywhere in a global scale. I don't follow the scene much anymore, but a quick look at top 10 of S-Code shows me no foreigners. Hahaha, what a joke. Oh man, let's make a documentary about Joe Blow who failed upwards, yeah that's real interesting. You know, even when foreigners struggled in SC, Giyom was up there and so was Elky. Could we really say the same about current jokes we call pros. They consciously make the decision to leave Korea where competition is at its fiercest and get mad when Koreans enter MLG. You got jokes like this guy who is a sponsored pro: http://i.imgur.com/QPJw3.jpg. A lot of these frauds make enough money from streaming and I don't think they really care at getting better anymore. Now, I don't know that, but it sure feels like that when they dodge competition and leave Korea. Tryhard is a pretty bad vocab, my mistake. In reality, the foreign pros don't really try hard at all. Back then, it was all about getting into Korea. That was the dream. Is it anymore? No foreigner really wants to go to Korea. It's too hard there to win. If that shit isn't lame I don't know what is. Welcome to dodge city. Let's look at another gaming scene; fighting games. Japan used to body US free in every tournament. For decades they've been doing that. But not anymore. US caught up because these players are legit, they play for real. There's not even any money in the scene, and the same players has been around for tens of years. They play for the love of the game and competition. Can there be anything more boring and fake as SC2 scene? All this hype and excitment built on fraudulent players who are mediocre and have no love for the game? Defrag, I only use ">" as a bulletpoint. Users commonly use this to footnote and such, so I don't know what the issue is. Don't be a nazi, thanks.

It's really great when uninformed retards open their mouth about shit they obviously have spent no time actually researching.

1) Korea, unlike SC1, has LESS big tournaments than the rest of the world. The most prestigious tournament is in Korea, yes, but the majority of big events are outside. Korean pros are travelling OUT of Korea for events - going to Korea is for practice.

2) List of progamers who have spent time in Korea:
Me (about 2 years, but I havent done shit worth mentioning in a long time)
Huk (almost 2 years)
SaSe (about 1 year)
Naniwa (about 1 year)
Haypro (about 1 year)
TLO
Ret
Sheth
MorroW
Select (on and off, lots of time)
ToD (on and off)
Grubby (one month)
Stephano (one month, is coming back for the next GSL I believe)
Thorzain (spent a couple of months last summer, is coming back now)
IdrA (not that much for SC2 as for SC1, but still a reasonable amount of time)
Nightend
Deathangel
SjoW
QXC
Cytoplasm
... Others Im no doubt forgetting

Results from these players in GSL:
2x GSL Semi Finals (me)
3x GSL Ro8s (Naniwa, Huk, IdrA)

Yeah, it's complete bullshit to say people don't want to go to Korea - lots and lots and lots of people go there just for practice, it makes very little sense for most people to move there permanently with the lack of tournaments, but some still try for the glory.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of things to actually complain about for SC2, and it's sad how much easier it is to get attention as a non-korean pro (though this is going to change with the Korean SC1 scene switching to SC2, Koreans will get good contracts etc too now), and many 'pros' are indeed not taking it as seriously as they could - just like in SC1. But your points are mostly bullshit and simply show that you don't actually follow the scene at all.

Another thing you completely, for some reason, fail to recognize is that there's 3 Korean players in the documentary... Yeah.
HerO:
Dreamhack Winter 2011 - 1st place
NASL S2 - 2nd place
GSL Semi-Finalist

TaeJa:
Code S ro8 at the moment, just all-killed Prime

Zenio:
Been code S forever, 3rd place IEM Kiev

I havent watched this documentary even though I was in it, but I really don't think 'failing upwards' is fair considering there are some very good results spread out among the members of this team.

Note: Before anyone brings up how horrible I am nowadays at this game, yes, I am and no it doesn't change anything.

On June 29 2012 20:21 Daut wrote: watching documentary now. barely know anyone in it besides naz/nony/day 9, but its enjoyable 15 minutes in

>:

On June 29 2012 20:09 RaiNKhAN wrote: I agree with a lot of what Arirang is saying. Marius I think you just respect TL/Nazgul/Meat and the people who generated that great game of SC1 but what the game is now is just garbage. Arirang is def right about it being LOL that they glorify these pros who are still getting annihilated by koreans. The entire korean SC community hasn't even transferred into SC2 yet and just imagine how empty the foreigner scene will be once that happens in Korea I still think they did an excellent job with the campaign and story line though. Man, I wish I could delete my memory of it and keep playing it over and over again in an infinite loop. Good times

The campaign was UTTER SHIT, what the fuck. Brutal rape of SC1 story and some extremely fucking cringeworthy dialogue.

TianYuan that was an awfully long reply to just chime in with "But don't get me wrong guys"

Either stick to ur guns or dont argue. There is nothing more cliche in 2011-2012 forum argument than when people say 'don't get me wrong but'. It is the exact same kind of crap that we've seen with "No offense, but".

You can't take both sides of this and win/win everywhere. When did you make the GSL semi-finals btw? I've been following GSL for about two years now and I don't remember seeing you unless you were one of the korean guys

I wonder when SC3 is coming out. SC2 just didnt do it for me.

On June 29 2012 23:39 RaiNKhAN wrote: When did you make the GSL semi-finals btw? I've been following GSL for about two years now and I don't remember seeing you unless you were one of the korean guys

Liquid'Jinro?

I wish I was good enough to earn a Team Liquid tag. If I was I'd choose the name Liquid`SH*T

On June 30 2012 00:40 aCa_ wrote: Show nested quote + On June 29 2012 23:39 RaiNKhAN wrote: When did you make the GSL semi-finals btw? I've been following GSL for about two years now and I don't remember seeing you unless you were one of the korean guys Liquid'Jinro?

I had no idea. I've just seen TianYuan around here and just assumed something else. He deserves a lot more credit then

I watched the first 25 mins to give it a chance and flicked through the rest. I think it really suffers from poor pacing/editing and could probably be compacted to an hour. If interviews are going to feature so strongly they need to be engaging and I don't think they were. Again I blame the director/editor/interviewer not so much the interviewees. The exception is Day, who interviews very well.

Seems to of been made by a fan instead of someone who can look at the material objectionably. Which is probably fair enough given the community but doesn't make for the greatest documentary.

On June 29 2012 23:39 RaiNKhAN wrote: TianYuan that was an awfully long reply to just chime in with "But don't get me wrong guys" Either stick to ur guns or dont argue. There is nothing more cliche in 2011-2012 forum argument than when people say 'don't get me wrong but'. It is the exact same kind of crap that we've seen with "No offense, but".

i don't think having a nuanced opinion about something necessarily means someone is being indecisive

(fyi didn't read half the thread so no clue if it applies here, just disagree with the general comment)

No. He listed reasons why Arirang is wrong then in the next segment he said "don't get me wrong". That is all I was saying it just came off poorly. TianYuan explained his reasons well for the counter argument but I just hated seeing "don't get me wrong". thats all

This'll be my last post in this thread since it seems to be getting out of hand with many mads. At this rate this thread will get locked and I'm probably gonna get banned by the almighty friends of TL.

We'll see what happens in the future as more SC1 pros transition over, and KeSPA gets more involved. Will foreigners' presence fade furthermore? Will there be more money in Korea? Would foreigners then go back and stay there for money and competition? Will foreigners keep getting bodied in every majors? Or will they finally fight back and win some, so you can tell me to hold that shit in my chest. Shoutouts to all the Japanese pros in FGC who does not leave Japan even though US has way more tournies and $$ because they want to stay in Japan where competition is at its fiercest.

SC2 is a stupid game with stupid strategies and stupid units

Even a gorilla with keyboard can micro the units well also

The skillgap between koreans and foreigners got smaller because they took away a lot of the skill from starcraft 1... Starcraft 3 you can probably /buildorder and its fine

SC2 scene fishiness / foreign mediocrity aside...

If nothing else, this documentary is evidence of the realization of the dream's of one life nit...
A modest life nit who masterminded all of this from the beginning.
Indeed, the same nit who created the site you post on today.

Well done Nazgul.

And what a life nit's dream it is. Well done indeed.

On June 29 2012 22:58 Balzamon wrote: Show nested quote + On June 29 2012 21:12 Twisted wrote: I like watching SC2 games and I don't think it sucks balls. Obviously SC1 was better but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy SC2. People are so negative/cynical all the time on this website. thats what the variance in poker does to us =)

I've been thinking about this since your post and I think there might be a connection with how dopamine levels in the brain are affected by long term gambling. Kinda like how a meth addict's dopamine level is affected when he is in long term use of methamphetamine.

It could be that when we are away from the game we tend to have low dopamine levels in our brain, making us becoming more negative, irritable and feisty.

Don't know, but worth looking into when I'm not lazy.

One thing when Im feeling a bit depressed (Maybe low dopamine due to being away from the pokerz) is I listen to music from a time when I was at my happiest. Doing this stoned helps too. But I prefer doing it when Im not stoned. It brings back the good memories you had. Like being in college, a back packing trip you had with friends, or a fling from when you were younger. Remember the what the music you were listening mostly during those times and play it.

Sorry, can some1 PM me the link to watch it.

A thing to note about sc2 is that there will be more units that drastically change gameplay with the coming expansions (not that it's worth caring about,but just to be fair).Sc1 battles would also seem kind of dull compared to bw imo. Other than that, we all got older and it's impossible to get the same levels of enthusiasm with gaming, something that led people to barely touch sc2 after being heavily involved with bw; most peoples' negative reactions have their roots on that fact (even if sc2 is indeed a lesser game at this point). There's still a LOT of skill involved when beasts play each other and a lot of depth in this game, no need to act like bitter grandpas thinking that everything nowadays is worse and fake and our childhoods were the greatest etc etc

Oh well, just posted it to share for people who might be interested. Thought it was cool to listening to Nazgul, and I really liked the Hero part of it. Really agree with Twisted on the cynnical bit, we should stop doing it, it's way to mainstream and over done. We should have bigger balls, open ourself up more for "potential attacks", a little more humble, and a little more thoughtful when "talking" to eachother.

^ yeah. But pretty positive long term gambling has an effect on dopamine levels in our brains.

On June 30 2012 01:53 RaiNKhAN wrote: No. He listed reasons why Arirang is wrong then in the next segment he said "don't get me wrong". That is all I was saying it just came off poorly. TianYuan explained his reasons well for the counter argument but I just hated seeing "don't get me wrong". thats all

Well, I dont know what else to say when it IS true that there's a lot of people that are basically half-time progamers... I still think his posts were retarded, but that one point I have to give him.

On June 30 2012 09:14 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On June 30 2012 01:53 RaiNKhAN wrote: No. He listed reasons why Arirang is wrong then in the next segment he said "don't get me wrong". That is all I was saying it just came off poorly. TianYuan explained his reasons well for the counter argument but I just hated seeing "don't get me wrong". thats all Well, I dont know what else to say when it IS true that there's a lot of people that are basically half-time progamers... I still think his posts were retarded, but that one point I have to give him.

oh jesus didnt realize that was you. you gotta realize when i was playing games against you, you were like 14 lol. pictures changed a lot fjkdlsa;fjeaoigejwaogjewai;g

but ya, i enjoyed the doc. thought it was pretty cool

On June 30 2012 01:17 Funktion wrote: I watched the first 25 mins to give it a chance and flicked through the rest. I think it really suffers from poor pacing/editing and could probably be compacted to an hour. If interviews are going to feature so strongly they need to be engaging and I don't think they were. Again I blame the director/editor/interviewer not so much the interviewees. The exception is Day, who interviews very well. Seems to of been made by a fan instead of someone who can look at the material objectionably. Which is probably fair enough given the community but doesn't make for the greatest documentary.

I did the same thing for the most part and I agree with your assessment.

I have several issues with Liquid Rising as a documentary. I feel that the story lacked any sort of thematic cohesion. The only thematic cohesion throughout was "hey everyone, team liquid is awesome." They did not do anything but spout platitudes ad nauseum to establish this. They did not establish a real story or play out any events to capture the viewer.

Additionally, the documentary lacked any emotion. There were no compelling story lines. There were no instances of personal struggle fleshed out. There were no instances of personal triumph played out. Again, the film repeatedly spouted platitudes stating "hey everyone, team liquid is awesome."

I believe that the film maker was probably a fan of team liquid and Starcraft first and a documentary film maker second. A produced and financed documentary in the pro gaming genre and/or team liquid had so much more potential than this documentary gave.

I would rate this film very low. Maybe 1/5 stars. It was not very watchable.

FWIW- I'm a HUGE fan of documentaries and watch them constantly. I could not watch this one aside from the first couple minutes then skip around to see if it was the same interview with platitude style despite my huge interest in the subject matter.

Watched the doc just now. It was surprisingly good! Thanks to the guys who made it.

I wish it was the same with LP. Years ago, yeah, LP and TL 'felt' the same. But as the years passed by some people became bitter, envious, arrogant or just being lame.

Would be cool to get that 'something' in the SC culture transitioned to poker. And not just with poker players that used to play games, but the whole scene altogether. Before I thought Elky was gonna pave the way for that. But no, he might have become one of 'them'. Dunno.

Lots of people enjoy SC2. It's fine if you don't like it, nobody really cares. The whiny kids in thread are just acting emo and craving attention. Puberty is rough, I know.

I thought about this last night before going to bed, and I do feel it's a bit immature and newbish to QQ, rage so much. But then I felt a little guilty, pretty sure I've done the same. But not to this extent (not sure if that let's me off the hook =p).

I've seen there's some UEFA or something thread, I think that's fotball. I hate it with a passion, but I don't go in the thread, then go acting like a retard, flaming it, lolling at it, throwing sarcastic remarks. Let people love what they want, without being encumbred by trolls giving them shit about it.

Oh, same with NFL threads, never click on those either, or NBA threads, I think that's basketball. Prefer going to the dentist more than watching any of that. Not sure what it is that makes it feel so boring to me. Which is a little weird, because all of those sports are fun to practice, do for real.

More cents from me lol

On June 30 2012 11:52 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On June 30 2012 09:14 TianYuan wrote:   On June 30 2012 01:53 RaiNKhAN wrote: No. He listed reasons why Arirang is wrong then in the next segment he said "don't get me wrong". That is all I was saying it just came off poorly. TianYuan explained his reasons well for the counter argument but I just hated seeing "don't get me wrong". thats all Well, I dont know what else to say when it IS true that there's a lot of people that are basically half-time progamers... I still think his posts were retarded, but that one point I have to give him. oh jesus didnt realize that was you. you gotta realize when i was playing games against you, you were like 14 lol. pictures changed a lot fjkdlsa;fjeaoigejwaogjewai;g but ya, i enjoyed the doc. thought it was pretty cool

Hahaha yeah, I would not recognize myself at 14 :D

On June 30 2012 20:23 BILAT_POWER!!! wrote: Watched the doc just now. It was surprisingly good! Thanks to the guys who made it. I wish it was the same with LP. Years ago, yeah, LP and TL 'felt' the same. But as the years passed by some people became bitter, envious, arrogant or just being lame. Would be cool to get that 'something' in the SC culture transitioned to poker. And not just with poker players that used to play games, but the whole scene altogether. Before I thought Elky was gonna pave the way for that. But no, he might have become one of 'them'. Dunno.

The entire poker community has grown so insanely jaded, which is usually a sign of a game dying in my experience, but for poker I think it's more a sign of money no longer growing on trees, like it once did. Or well, it still does I guess, just now you have to actually harvest the fruit instead of waiting for it to fall into your lap.

On June 29 2012 18:43 Arirang wrote: Ugh, your response is a mess. Grats to ignoring the fact that foreign pros are dodging competition and people love them still (hahaha). Grats to giving shoutouts to a known maphacker LOL. Grats for being as good as ElkY during his prime. Seriously, who cares if you were. Grats to being wrong of the fact that foreigners are "catching up", when in reality, they were the closest during the beginning of SC2, and now they're being ditched behind again. Grats for being that guy who supports this mess and buys into the hype of mediocrity. eSports yehhhhh!

fwiw stephano is doing pretty well, and he's foreigner, Mana also recently won dreamhack and he's polish

On June 30 2012 21:56 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On June 30 2012 11:52 Daut wrote:   On June 30 2012 09:14 TianYuan wrote:   On June 30 2012 01:53 RaiNKhAN wrote: No. He listed reasons why Arirang is wrong then in the next segment he said "don't get me wrong". That is all I was saying it just came off poorly. TianYuan explained his reasons well for the counter argument but I just hated seeing "don't get me wrong". thats all Well, I dont know what else to say when it IS true that there's a lot of people that are basically half-time progamers... I still think his posts were retarded, but that one point I have to give him. oh jesus didnt realize that was you. you gotta realize when i was playing games against you, you were like 14 lol. pictures changed a lot fjkdlsa;fjeaoigejwaogjewai;g but ya, i enjoyed the doc. thought it was pretty cool Hahaha yeah, I would not recognize myself at 14 :D   On June 30 2012 20:23 BILAT_POWER!!! wrote: Watched the doc just now. It was surprisingly good! Thanks to the guys who made it. I wish it was the same with LP. Years ago, yeah, LP and TL 'felt' the same. But as the years passed by some people became bitter, envious, arrogant or just being lame. Would be cool to get that 'something' in the SC culture transitioned to poker. And not just with poker players that used to play games, but the whole scene altogether. Before I thought Elky was gonna pave the way for that. But no, he might have become one of 'them'. Dunno. The entire poker community has grown so insanely jaded, which is usually a sign of a game dying in my experience, but for poker I think it's more a sign of money no longer growing on trees, like it once did. Or well, it still does I guess, just now you have to actually harvest the fruit instead of waiting for it to fall into your lap.

it's really only all due to the retarded legislations everywhere though

On June 30 2012 01:17 Funktion wrote: I watched the first 25 mins to give it a chance and flicked through the rest. I think it really suffers from poor pacing/editing and could probably be compacted to an hour. If interviews are going to feature so strongly they need to be engaging and I don't think they were. Again I blame the director/editor/interviewer not so much the interviewees. The exception is Day, who interviews very well. Seems to of been made by a fan instead of someone who can look at the material objectionably. Which is probably fair enough given the community but doesn't make for the greatest documentary.

Same thing just happened for me and for the same reasons.

On June 30 2012 00:40 aCa_ wrote: Show nested quote + On June 29 2012 23:39 RaiNKhAN wrote: When did you make the GSL semi-finals btw? I've been following GSL for about two years now and I don't remember seeing you unless you were one of the korean guys Liquid'Jinro?

0_o ! also had no idea Jinro = TianYuan