Liquid Rising

I feel this should be posted here as well, just in case people didn't know.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347190

Documentary about Liquid =]

TL sux

>sc2 is boring
>TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity
>foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises
>who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

[ ] would watch

[x] knew about this
[ ] wanted to watch this

On June 29 2012 13:41 Arirang wrote: TL sux >sc2 is boring >TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity >foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises >who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

First one, just an opinion, which is fine. But kinda got the feeling you ment it as a statement, fact. Kind of like when I get questions about Fotball, I respond with, ah, it's very boring. Although for some people it's not.

Not sure what you mean with the second one, feels a bit stupid. Just a random insult, a lot of the most dedicated, most passionate people I know about "came" from the TL community.

Never before have "foreign" pro's been as good as they are in SC2, if you compare it to SC/BW, which is amazing. Biggest salaries have gone to Huk & Stephano, which seem pretty accurate to me.

And the last one is just lol, what's wrong with trying hard, not quitting, not giving up? Most of them are making a living out of doing something they are passionate about. Failing isn't the same in my vocabulary as in yours perhaps. Most of them have very impressive merits. Especially Huk, Hero and Ret.

The competition in that game is probably as fierce as anything you could think of in any other genre or sports. And the practice, level of competition keep increasing all the time.

My take on it.

I watched it and really liked it. I don't know if there are other documentaries about "esports" teams out there, but I love how TL has a sense of collectiveness in spite of playing an individual game. Also I'm sure that a lot of people can identify with the characters portrayed in the doc: the talented guy who doesn't put in the effort he should, the hard worker whose big result seems to be just around the corner, the guy who's been held back by things that he cannot change himself. Of course it's just a 100min doc so all of these things are treated very superficially, but it's a high quality documentary imo.

People usually just check the results of the matches, but have no clue how the players really are behind their aliases, and the movie addresses that really well. That being said I don't think it's for everyone. I think they have a very specific target as an audience and I'm quite sure that audience is very likely to like the product.

On June 29 2012 13:41 Arirang wrote: TL sux >sc2 is boring >TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity >foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises >who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

On June 29 2012 13:42 dogmeat wrote: [ ] would watch

On June 29 2012 13:43 Drakk wrote: [x] knew about this [ ] wanted to watch this

This is not 4chan or reddit, or whatever other site, please don't use those retarded checkboxes and ">".
Thanks.

thought it was cool. big + to anything that makes ESPORTS bigger

Yeah, it's an opinion as is with you thinking this game is great. And much like you, I find a lot of sports boring as well, but I respect the design of the game and its complexity, and its potential to become something even more amazing than what it is today. However, as for SC2, not only do I find it boring, I don't respect its game design at all. I genuinely find this game to be super mediocre and if it weren't for the franchise; Starcraft, it would not have garnered as much success as it had today. I view it more or less as a fraudulent success based on the most dedicated fans in video game history.

TL, much like any other big gaming hubs is full of players with shitty opinions that think they're too important (hey, kinda like me!). But they actually think their silver league bullshit is legit as long as their grammar is correct. Have you played any games with players from TL community? Horseshit bad. Largely because it's like a new hip thing to like SC2 and League of Legends (lol im such a nerd). No hate on that really, games are becoming more mainstream and that's great. But TL's mods ban for any sort of flame even if it's legit. Hence the celebration of mediocrity, where shit players run wild talking what they wanna say without some sensible person shutting them up. It's like Reddit. Fake nice, and circle jerkery. Imagine TalentedTom getting banned for his funny little remarks on dumb hands that gets posted.

Foreign pros have always struggled in SC scene, yes. And perhaps they are more successful now than they have ever been in SC history. Though, that's not saying much when none of the foreign pros really are anywhere in a global scale. I don't follow the scene much anymore, but a quick look at top 10 of S-Code shows me no foreigners. Hahaha, what a joke. Oh man, let's make a documentary about Joe Blow who failed upwards, yeah that's real interesting. You know, even when foreigners struggled in SC, Giyom was up there and so was Elky. Could we really say the same about current jokes we call pros. They consciously make the decision to leave Korea where competition is at its fiercest and get mad when Koreans enter MLG. You got jokes like this guy who is a sponsored pro: http://i.imgur.com/QPJw3.jpg. A lot of these frauds make enough money from streaming and I don't think they really care at getting better anymore. Now, I don't know that, but it sure feels like that when they dodge competition and leave Korea.

Tryhard is a pretty bad vocab, my mistake. In reality, the foreign pros don't really try hard at all. Back then, it was all about getting into Korea. That was the dream. Is it anymore? No foreigner really wants to go to Korea. It's too hard there to win. If that shit isn't lame I don't know what is. Welcome to dodge city. Let's look at another gaming scene; fighting games. Japan used to body US free in every tournament. For decades they've been doing that. But not anymore. US caught up because these players are legit, they play for real. There's not even any money in the scene, and the same players has been around for tens of years. They play for the love of the game and competition.

Can there be anything more boring and fake as SC2 scene? All this hype and excitment built on fraudulent players who are mediocre and have no love for the game?


Defrag, I only use ">" as a bulletpoint. Users commonly use this to footnote and such, so I don't know what the issue is. Don't be a nazi, thanks.

A mod who think he can dictate his rule without any explanation
and another one who show up once every month just to abuse his "mod power"

Guess what maybe there is a correlation with the fact LP dying.

edit: nope Pooruser , you cant just delete my post
you edited my previous post wth :' I suck" wich you answered with " you said it alright"
yes i know

fine i settled for deleting your inflammatory post that had nothing to do with the topic and was just you being a douchebag for douchebags sake. you have my deepest apologies.

back to OT plz

You can't act like nothing happened.
I've pm nazgul for public apologies and a demod.
and nope , apologies with douchebag twice in the same line won't do the trick

Found the documentary pretty interesting but thought it was lame that they were saying how all their players would be the best if they would just put in the work. Sounds cheesy and makes the team look like a bunch of slackers.

Teamliquid? Don't you guys mean Disneyland...........:[

edit: but really, TL went down the drain the second it became "big". Sounds lame, I know, but it's fact :/, mediocrity sums it up quite well.

Strictly speaking documentaries now; the main fault was at 15:09 and 16:44, it seems some people made some pretty retarded decisions there
when they should have just chilled the fuck out instead of acting on their totalitarian instincts. The one word edit at 15:09 was a classic.
It's as if the author thought it would give the whole thing less of an authoritative-look and more of a polite request type of deal, when really we know he had opinion-based tempbans in mind.

All in all this is heading to be a pretty bad documentary (Inside LiquidPoker: Mods all up in heah!)

Read through your response Arirang. Most points I disagree with, find it all to be a bit too pessimistic. Most things "are a joke, is lol, silly".

I found good games at TL when I played a bit of SC2 9-10 months ago, mostly High masters, also got a few games vs GM people, don't get what the fuss is about.

Pretty easy to "tell" the level of someone when you're at such a big forum, why "cling" to the people you don't see as your "peers", just skim past and stop at the ones you find cool, or people at your current level?

Koreans are godly, that doesn't mean that everyone else are pieces of shit. And there's always exceptions to the rule, if you look at the statistics it's not that bad. Even the best korean gamers of all time are acknowledging the best foreigners now, this hasn't happened before.

I do appreciate your romantic view of the past, in Starcraft/BW. Your example with Giyom and Elky. Mad respect to them, but I don't feel they were godly, I felt even I was equal in skill to Elky, he wasn't "that" good, there were a lot of people much better outside of korea than him. Slayer, Sven, SaFT, Blackman, Testie to name but a few.

Talking about "godlike", what about Slayer? Since he >>> whole of korea, and revolutionized everything, we should now not give the koreans any credit? That'd be pretty retarded.
What's wrong with the koreans being the God's of games, and a lot of people outside starting to catch up, and quite a few can now compete with them. Awesome if you ask me xD

On June 29 2012 13:41 Arirang wrote: TL sux >sc2 is boring >TL is a community that celebrates mediocrity >foreign pros fail upwards, when they're shit, their popularity and income rises >who wants to watch a doc that glorifies the biggest tryhards that fail continuously in their "profession"

i actually agree with this

On June 29 2012 17:58 Mariuslol wrote: Elky, he wasn't "that" good, there were a lot of people much better outside of korea than him. Slayer, Sven, SaFT, Blackman, Testie to name but a few.

Really? at a certain point in time I would have thought elky was better than all of them. I don't think that takes anything away from those other guys, maybe they would have been even better if they got a chance to train on a korean pro team.


About the documentary; it was hard for me to "get it" because I only know 2 people that were featured. I still thought it was interesting to see how TL's evolved over this time, because I basicly never checked it since LP came out. I mean, here we are talking about slayer, testie, blackman & elky... we're fans from a different era The guys on TL.net are loving this and that says a lot I think because they're the target audience.

Ugh, your response is a mess.

Grats to ignoring the fact that foreign pros are dodging competition and people love them still (hahaha).
Grats to giving shoutouts to a known maphacker LOL.
Grats for being as good as ElkY during his prime. Seriously, who cares if you were.
Grats to being wrong of the fact that foreigners are "catching up", when in reality, they were the closest during the beginning of SC2, and now they're being ditched behind again.

Grats for being that guy who supports this mess and buys into the hype of mediocrity.

eSports yehhhhh!

On June 29 2012 16:25 waga wrote: edit: nope Pooruser , you cant just delete my post you edited my previous post wth :' I suck" wich you answered with " you said it alright"

LOL