bottom flush awkward turn/river spot

This came up today an a $1-$2 live game (I'm posting it in micro instead of medium stakes because almost everybody at the table was lol bad). Villain was huge fish, VERY loose and usually quite passive. I think whenever he hit something on the flop that he perceived as a good made hand, he would always check-raise. One hand he fired 2 barrels on turn and river with a pair of 7s on a queen-high board, against a much tighter (and stronger) opponent who raised preflop.

Here is the hand. I have about 110 BBs, and villain has me covered. 2 players limp, and I raise to 5 bbs with 56s in the cutoff. The dealer and blinds fold, and villain (who limped UTG) call, and 1 limper from mid position calls.

Effective stack size is 105 BBs, pot is about 15.

flop comes Ah Ts 2s, giving me a flush draw. Both players check to me, so I cbet 10 BBs. Villain calls, 2nd player folds.

Effective stack size 95 bbs, pot is 34 bbs (-1 from rake).
Turn 4s, completing my flush.

Instead of checking, villain now leads into me for 18 bbs. What should I do here?

If he checked to me I probably would have bet about 2/3s the pot on turn, and half pot on river. I felt it would be bad to get pot committed at this point with bottom flush, especially since he uncharacteristically led into me after the flush was completed. Perhaps a min raise here would have been best? I doubt he would be calling a substantial raise with many hands that don't beat mine, and by just flatting it gives him the opportunity to bet a weaker hand on the river again. It seemed to me that he had stumbled into doing a blocking bet (though I'm certain this person doesn't even know what a 'blocking bet' is). I decided to flat, and hoping that the board didn't pair or even worse, another spade didn't come down (in which case I was planning on folding to a large bet).

Effective stack size 77 bbs, pot is 70 bbs
River is 7s

Villain bets 25 bbs.

As villain only bet about 1/3 of the pot, I went ahead and cry called the river, thinking he might have played a set or 2 pair in a really fishy way, or possibly bluffing river extremely cheaply hoping he could get a fold out of me if I had no spade.

Was this hand played acceptably? As always, your opinions are appreciated.

BTW my image was extremely tight (was a 9-ring game and my vpip was probably like ... 10%), but I don't think the villain would really adjust his play against me, or anybody else.

I would call turn and fold this river. I like calling turn because it keeps villain guessing more often. On the turn think u have around 80 percent equity vs top pair, 2 pairs, sets and flush draws so I don't mind that much calling turn even though he is getting a good price. I would rather try and get a bet out of him on the river.

If this is live, preflop I much more prefer to limp in cutoff but would value raise QTs+, 77+

On the turn the only thing that has you beat is a better flush, so right off the bat you should be inclined to think you have the best hand on the turn (especially because there are only 8 spades left in the deck and he needs 2 of them). I think his turn bet oop allows you to narrow his range to the top of his range (2 pair/set/flush) because he likely isn't betting with air here, although anything is possible at these stakes imo..

I guess he could also be turning hands with backdoor flushdraws/gutshots like KJ/KQ/QJ into a semi-bluff here as well, although he's more likely to c/c the turn to try and get a cheap river

I think a 3bet on the turn is good for a lot of reasons. It reduces the potential of you getting sucked out on the river if another spade comes, it gives you control of the hand on the river if he flats, it puts him in a tough spot on the river, it gives you the opportunity to take down a decent pot right there and then, and it also has a lot of value because he's going to pay you off a lot of the time with his sets (and possibly his 2 pairs). If he does have a set (or 2 pair) by the river, which is very possible, then it is also unlikely he has a spade for obvious reasons

You're getting almost 4-1 on the river and there are 7 spades left in the deck at this point, only 6 of which have you beat (8, 9, J, Q, K, A). His bet on the river seems weak, as though he's praying you don't have a spade and his set is hopefully still the best hand. Problem is that he could be betting the same with a J-A of spades..

Tough spot but I'd prob call

I definitely much prefer flatting with 56s as you probably don't get a lot of folds with a raise and it's hard to value bet 56s.

If they fit or fold a shit-ton then raising has merit, otherwise i much prefer flatting.

As played, since they are leading the turn very small and he's passive, I would be a little cautious as they are passive and it seems like this player check-raises all of his mediocre holdings. In either likelihood of the nuts/air I would flat the turn bet here as I think we get more worse to fold and better to call.

The river is a pretty bad card and when he leads small again, I just don't think you have enough SD value to call and raising to get him to fold better is bad as well. Unless he's really really really bad, I just fold here. If it were another card, there is some discussion as to shove/flat but with this last spade just fold and move onto the next hand.

River is a fold imo... turn I don't mind calling although I also don't mind protecting our hand because I honestly feel some sort of broadway draw turned into a semi-bluff (w/ a spade) is a huge part of his range that you are ahead of and he probably sees a river with being a fish

against a fish if your plan is to call, you should roll your eyes exhale a huge breath before doing flatting

On June 27 2012 15:42 HungarianGOD wrote: BTW my image was extremely tight (was a 9-ring game and my vpip was probably like ... 10%), but I don't think the villain would really adjust his play against me, or anybody else.

No - its a live game people are way more stupid than you think they are

Thanks for the feedback.
After thinking about it for a while, I think I like raising the turn because it makes the river easier to play, and gets more money in before he would have a chance to draw out to a higher flush or a full house on the river. I think he would usually fold worse, but 2-pairs, sets, and pair flush draw combos would certainly get action. I think he would be checking almost all non-monster river hands, so it would make river an easy fold/call or small value bet depending on the last card. The only line that would be obnoxious to play against would be if he 3-bet jammed the turn (which I think he would do with very few hands)... I think I'd end up calling, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

On June 28 2012 16:13 TalentedTom wrote: against a fish if your plan is to call, you should roll your eyes exhale a huge breath before doing flatting

When most of you guys play live, you usually bring the acting skills to the tables? I have little confidence in my ability to read and or fake physical tells.

results? i wanna know if what i thought he had is what he had

Sure, I think I'm comfortable enough with this hand now. He had Ad 9s.

I play the same and shove any non spade river. I don't fold river.
his turn bet is typical of fish / livetard , he bets for info. ^^

did my post get deleted wtF?

i said wwu bet call tt on a high dry lol

On June 30 2012 14:49 traxamillion wrote: did my post get deleted wtF? i said wwu bet call tt on a high dry lol

You're in the wrong thread lol

Look here for your post