20/40 plo 11k deep 5 handed

Same villain as the last post very smart player playing 70/30/6 could be raising a bit more..

(CO)villain 20k
(B) me 11k

he opens 110 I 3b 310 /w AS QH 6S 6H ( he's yet to 4b me, has c/f'ed to my cbets 2 times, only c/r me once from the last hand I posted. C/C me twice once he gave up on my 2 barrel 2nd time C/C a t87 3hh board and potted a ks I folded air ( all in 3b pots )

On to the hand

Flop KS QS 6D he donks 375 I make 1250 and he calls fairly quickly Turn 9C he checks. Once he flatted the flop his most likely hand in my mind was wrap with no fd and now he checks. So I'm starting to re think his range OTT, what range are you putting him on and whats the best line to take vs that.

Thanks

His range is super wide if he's really playing 70/30/6. JT won't be frequent enough to really scare me away from bet/calling.

3180 in pot on turn w/ 9500ish left in stack.

On May 23 2012 15:36 NMcNasty wrote: His range is super wide if he's really playing 70/30/6. JT won't be frequent enough to really scare me away from bet/calling.

what can villain possibly be donk/calling the flop with given we block nut spades, we have a Q blocker to 2nd nut set and we have bottom set. KK almost for sure 3bets flop unless it has no redraw whatsoever (though given how loose villain is playing it would still seem like a no brainer 3bet), but that's not folding to our turn bet anyways. Something like AJT/JT9 seems his most likely holdings to me. We still have 40% equity against that hand, so I guess b/c can't be that bad, but I dunno, I'm not experienced enough in plo.

On May 24 2012 03:44 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On May 23 2012 15:36 NMcNasty wrote: His range is super wide if he's really playing 70/30/6. JT won't be frequent enough to really scare me away from bet/calling. what can villain possibly be donk/calling the flop with given we block nut spades

Any kind of pair and lower fd, other broadway draws, 2 pair. Villain's preflop range is just too wide and donk/calling is too uncommon for me to pinpoint his hand here.

heres the thing about this hand. while his range is significantly wider than just JT, i think checking is the play. if he has JT he check raises all in and we get a lot in ~43% if he doesnt have JT then we probably fold out hands that may bluff the river or make a worse flush on the end. i think we need to check to keep worse hands in and save money vs JT

if we had a potsize bet left and a naked set i would definitely bet to protect my hand. or if we had 1.5x pot left and had something like AJ66 with no flush draw id pot. but protecting your hand means less here since we have the nut flush draw (only bad cards are 3 non spade jacks and tens) and the stacks are a lot deeper with 3x pot so i think this is a pretty auto check.

I wouldn't be betting here to protect its mainly just value. I guess it just depends on how often villain calls down here with worse or check raise bluffs, for the latter stack sizes are perfect to entice him to do so. The way villain is described I think that chance is reasonably high.

On May 24 2012 13:33 Daut wrote: heres the thing about this hand. while his range is significantly wider than just JT, i think checking is the play. if he has JT he check raises all in and we get a lot in ~43% if he doesnt have JT then we probably fold out hands that may bluff the river or make a worse flush on the end. i think we need to check to keep worse hands in and save money vs JT if we had a potsize bet left and a naked set i would definitely bet to protect my hand. or if we had 1.5x pot left and had something like AJ66 with no flush draw id pot. but protecting your hand means less here since we have the nut flush draw (only bad cards are 3 non spade jacks and tens) and the stacks are a lot deeper with 3x pot so i think this is a pretty auto check.

For the reason Daut described, once he checked I thought the best way to get value from his range was to check.. river is 3h he bets 1700 I just call

looks like a trivial bet for value
cant imagine anyone good ever checkin turn there

not sayin u guys are bad obv, not my point, just hard to imagine galfond not bettin there for instance

i think its hard to get 2 streets vs almost any hand here. id prefer keeping his weak hands in and letting him bluff rivers or make a worse value hand than us and call rivers. yea its possible he has something like AxKsJsx and calls a bet then calls on a river spade but thats very rare. if he has spades and we bet the turn he probably thinks its more likely we had a wrap and wouldnt be so likely to check raise the turn. i think his turn c/r range is almost entirely JT.

and i would feel slightly better about calling a check raise on the river than the turn if the action went check check, river is a 3h, he checks i bet and he check raises. i think that way his range contains a lot more bluffs that way due to him thinking we never have JT. not positive on this as we do have 42.5% equity on turn vs naked JT, but i think he willl show up with lots of randomness if the action goes that way.

i really like checking back here cause it gives a bunch of cool river options. i think most high stakes players would bet on the thinking that "he may c/r some other semibluff which we crush and we are 42.5% vs JT" but i think they overestimate how often he will c/r something like AKsJx type hands, and i think checking has more interesting implications for the hand

We dont bet turn because ppl are gonna "semibluff" CR turn, they're not, its just straight up value against some hands that contain a J+2pr or pair+J+spades
idk checkin seems spewy

but those hands bluff river anyway, or get valuetowned when hit flush anyway, and you make him fold all those weaker hands like daut said

wqopdjqpodjqwç iopqjw rçiorqwjnrçqijdqçddqçjqidjqçdi -> arguments in favor of checkin turn, too drunk to write an essay but i will as soon as i feel human again, CHEERS

hes also sometimes gonna bluff board pairing rivers so its really good for our range to have boats riv after bettin turn,
not to mention we miss ridic value vs someone who plays 70/30

im all for thinkin outside the box but its just such a clear bet theres not much room for creativity lol

i also agree that betting here is mandatory. if turn is say..a 10, we can maybe chk, but betting here for value and to protect our riv range is 100% the best play vs just about anyone

thats a really good point that his range is fucking wide as hell and can have all sorts of shit. but man hes not some 70/35 drooler, hes a thinking winning player that just plays a shitton of hands. im still not completely convinced vs him its a a clearbet but im definitely not in the clear check camp anymore.

what do you guys think about betting 1200 on the turn?

prob better to bet pretty big w our value range there
we just wanna build the pot really