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palak   United States. Feb 14 2012 10:49. Posts 4601 | | |
This is my nomination for dumbest successful (barring appeal) lawsuit of the century.
| A Parisian commercial court has upheld a lower court's ruling against Google France, ordering the company to pay a fine of €500,000 for giving away its maps services. The plaintiff, Bottin Cartographes, claims that Google leveraged the market share of its Maps platform -- and the fact that it's free -- to undercut and stifle competition attempting to sell their topographical wares to businesses. "We proved the illegality of [Google's] strategy," said Bottin's counsel, noting that this was the first time Google has been convicted of malfeasance for this particular piece of software in the country. A representative from the search giant said it plans to appeal the decision, and reiterated the company's belief that competition exists in the space. Personally, we think the court got it right. Why should people get an awesome product for free when they can pay for an inferior one, right? |
www.engadget.com/2012/02/02/french-co...france-500-000-euros-for-gratis-maps/ |
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dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium | |
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Highcard   Canada. Feb 14 2012 11:25. Posts 5428 | | |
It's actually a big deal and if you would read a real discussion/breakdown you may come to realize that it isn't as simple as 1, 2, 3.
Google can leverage the entire Maps market and kill every single company in that market, then in 5 years charge whatever it wants. Maps is a service it already charges for in different countries and because of that and French Law about undercutting a whole market by offering a product for free from a for profit company, that is in French Law, and potentially true, an unfair business practice for prosperous competition.
(I read up on this from HN) |
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I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time | |
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spets1   Australia. Feb 14 2012 11:39. Posts 2179 | | |
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pretty interesting situation
going to work from highcard's post here..
definitely can see the reasons this law is on the books. the maps business takes a lot of resources and capital, by offering the service for free (I imagine they are doing it by temporarily subsidizing the costs of Maps with unrelated business segments, in combination of their existing Ads and other unrelated business segments (social media, gmail, search)) they can raise the barriers to entry astronomically, making it much more difficult for competitors to come in -- basically eliminating any kind of grassroots start-ups, making yet another industry in which it is impossible to enter unless you have massive massive capital and the additional risk that goes with that -- really stifling the whole purpose of free markets (to increase competition and drive innovation). |
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| Last edit: 14/02/2012 11:43 |
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palak   United States. Feb 14 2012 11:41. Posts 4601 | | |
Would be valid if google was the only free map service. Microsoft, yahoo both offer free maps. Openstreetmap Is a community driven free map service. If google raised prices everyone would just switch to Bing maps. As it is I use Bing maps more and more. Its more accurate then google maps anyway. |
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dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium | Last edit: 14/02/2012 11:43 |
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word.. there are tons of complications inherent in the application of a law like this. |
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GoTuNk   Chile. Feb 14 2012 17:54. Posts 2860 | | |
| On February 14 2012 10:40 Night2o1 wrote:
pretty interesting situation
going to work from highcard's post here..
definitely can see the reasons this law is on the books. the maps business takes a lot of resources and capital, by offering the service for free (I imagine they are doing it by temporarily subsidizing the costs of Maps with unrelated business segments, in combination of their existing Ads and other unrelated business segments (social media, gmail, search)) they can raise the barriers to entry astronomically, making it much more difficult for competitors to come in -- basically eliminating any kind of grassroots start-ups, making yet another industry in which it is impossible to enter unless you have massive massive capital and the additional risk that goes with that -- really stifling the whole purpose of free markets (to increase competition and drive innovation). |
I'm sorry this argument is pretty bad. There are 2 reasons why monopolies emerge: unlawful practices OR greater efficiency. There is nothing wrong with it becoming a monopoly if its a service that is just better in anyway than its competitors.
Could they start charging monopoly prizes for map services later? Maybe. When they do, only THEN, can you sue them for monopolistic practices. |
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Garfed   Malta. Feb 14 2012 18:01. Posts 4818 | | |
Quite disturbing if you ask me. |
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LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 14 2012 18:02. Posts 15163 | | |
were some posts deleted here?
LP Mods=Wehrmacht
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how will you be able to tell if they are charging monopoly prices later on or not when that company is the only one with the technology and detailed industry knowledge left around? |
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Garfed   Malta. Feb 14 2012 18:12. Posts 4818 | | |
| On February 14 2012 17:02 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
were some posts deleted here?
LP Mods=Wehrmacht
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No, nothing was deleted, I just checked in the log.
However, I should ban you for comparing anyone to nazis, especially without any reason. Think before you post. |
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| Last edit: 14/02/2012 18:14 |
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GoTuNk   Chile. Feb 14 2012 18:23. Posts 2860 | | |
| On February 14 2012 17:11 Night2o1 wrote:
how will you be able to tell if they are charging monopoly prices later on or not when that company is the only one with the technology and detailed industry knowledge left around? |
When they start charging for their services? oo. If they do, you can compare with current prizes (when competition exists) adjusted to inflation, or w/e. It is a judgement thing on a kinda gray area. What should not happen is that google can't offer the shit for free because somebullshit company offering worse service at higher prizes is protected by the government and missapliance of laws. |
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Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 14 2012 18:32. Posts 9634 | | |
| On February 14 2012 17:23 GoTuNk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 17:11 Night2o1 wrote:
how will you be able to tell if they are charging monopoly prices later on or not when that company is the only one with the technology and detailed industry knowledge left around? |
When they start charging for their services? oo. If they do, you can compare with current prizes (when competition exists) adjusted to inflation, or w/e. It is a judgement thing on a kinda gray area. What should not happen is that google can't offer the shit for free because somebullshit company offering worse service at higher prizes is protected by the government and missapliance of laws.
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GoTuNk does have a point and he is absolutely right
However when it comes to google gaining so much power and so fast in most aspects of our life - well thats kinda disturbing tbh |
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Baalim   Mexico. Feb 14 2012 19:20. Posts 34246 | | |
| On February 14 2012 17:32 Spitfiree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 17:23 GoTuNk wrote:
| On February 14 2012 17:11 Night2o1 wrote:
how will you be able to tell if they are charging monopoly prices later on or not when that company is the only one with the technology and detailed industry knowledge left around? |
When they start charging for their services? oo. If they do, you can compare with current prizes (when competition exists) adjusted to inflation, or w/e. It is a judgement thing on a kinda gray area. What should not happen is that google can't offer the shit for free because somebullshit company offering worse service at higher prizes is protected by the government and missapliance of laws.
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GoTuNk does have a point and he is absolutely right
However when it comes to google gaining so much power and so fast in most aspects of our life - well thats kinda disturbing tbh |
google doesnt hold 1% of the power your government holds over you and so far it has shown very little corruption compared to it too, so its like you are afraid of a small cat gaining weight when you are living in a cage with a Tiger |
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Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online | |
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I'm not rly sure of the implications, I still find it interesting that a law like that is on the books and am curious how it got there |
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| Last edit: 14/02/2012 19:50 |
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LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 14 2012 21:13. Posts 15163 | | |
| On February 14 2012 17:12 Defrag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 17:02 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
were some posts deleted here?
LP Mods=Wehrmacht
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No, nothing was deleted, I just checked in the log.
However, I should ban you for comparing anyone to nazis, especially without any reason. Think before you post.
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My bad mixed up threads |
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blackjacki2   United States. Feb 14 2012 21:29. Posts 2581 | | |
So does this mean that all map-making companies can sue google and get some free cash? I thought stuff like this was handled with anti-trust regulators with fines, not with settlements from one company to another.
So does this mean that if google wants to avoid more fines they have to charge people in France to use google maps? |
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palak   United States. Feb 14 2012 22:18. Posts 4601 | | |
^French law...zero clue what it means....American anti-trust law (as far as I know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law ) doesn't allow for a corporation or monopoly to face punishment unless it can be shown that the consumer will be hurt, not other corporations. Also in America this would never work since there are to many other mapping services. Then again as I've said before those other mapping services in France. I'm confused how googles defense isn't just going to bing.com/maps and showing microsoft does everything they do for free also....seems like it would kinda defeat the lawsuit there. Much like Samsung faught the Apple tablet patent in Germany by just showing tablets existing in the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey |
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dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium | |
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kingpowa   France. Feb 15 2012 17:38. Posts 1525 | | |
just some few points :
This is not the google maps service for everyone which was attacked but the service for companies such as embedded maps on their site. Google has been sued for "abuse of a dominant position".
Google maps is not "free" as an open source project is. OpenStreetMap is such an open source project and thus could not be sued.
5 years ago, Microsoft had quite the same position as google nowadays and had been charged by Europe for "abuse of a dominant position" and got to pay 600 million €. They provided free services (windows media player for example) with windows and had been sued and charged for that. I guess this is quite the same here.
I don't have an opinion on whether it is good or not here, but I do feel more and more concerned by the omnipresence of google or other similar companies and the accumulation of data they have. |
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sorry for shitty english. | |
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