I like this... I seem to always bet $12 on this type of flop and fold to a push... And if I check I basically shut down to a halfpot bet o_O;

I raise you with air every single time here. Would you c-bet like this with AK/KK/AA? I doubt it.

On February 01 2008 03:23 Kapol wrote: I raise you with air every single time here. Would you c-bet like this with AK/KK/AA? I doubt it.

yes i would lol
its funny because he timebanked to like 1 second before calling preflop

didnt get to write that tho cuz my net died

On February 01 2008 03:23 Kapol wrote: I raise you with air every single time here. Would you c-bet like this with AK/KK/AA? I doubt it.

What do you do on turn when they call the raise? I've seen people make AA/KK like this or JJ. It's sickening.

You would? Now that's terrible, because:
a) you're offering great odds if someone is drawing,
b) you're not building the pot when you are ahead. <--- and that's fucking important

On February 01 2008 03:31 TheHuHu wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2008 03:23 Kapol wrote: I raise you with air every single time here. Would you c-bet like this with AK/KK/AA? I doubt it. What do you do on turn when they call the raise? I've seen people make AA/KK like this or JJ. It's sickening.

I shut down. Even if they do call the raise it happens rarely enough to make this move profitable in the long run.

nah, i wouldn't do this very often b/c this situation hardly ever happens anyway, who timebanks that long preflop thinking about what to do with ANYTHING here ?

So i think he folds to ANY bet not just $10 or whatever, anything. If he raises me its legitimate.

Also we have 35$ behind effective stacks so he's gonna raise then fold?

oO just talked to myth and he basically said its bad because if my opponent is gonna fold to any bet i might as well check and call a bet from him

[11:35] checkfoldnutz: http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/374496
[11:35] checkfoldnutz: what u think about this
[11:36] checkfoldnutz: :D
[11:36] checkfoldnutz: he timebanked to 1 second before calling preflop
[11:36] checkfoldnutz: which was like a full 30 sec of timebanking
[11:39] behindeveryline: if your thinking is along the lines of
[11:39] behindeveryline: "i only have to bet 5 to make him fold here, his hand is obv not strong bc of his preflop timing"
[11:39] checkfoldnutz: ya
[11:39] behindeveryline: then it's really clear that you need to check
[11:39] behindeveryline: o_Oa
[11:39] checkfoldnutz: nah, i wouldn't do this very often b/c this situation hardly ever happens anyway, who timebanks that long preflop thinking about what to do with ANYTHING here ?

So i think he folds to ANY bet not just $10 or whatever, anything. If he raises me its legitimate.

Also we have 35$ behind effective stacks so he's gonna raise then fold?
[11:39] checkfoldnutz: i just posted
[11:39] behindeveryline: i like this if you have 25o
[11:40] behindeveryline: if you're gonna bet your hand as a bluff for protection
[11:40] behindeveryline: you gotta charge FDs appropriately
[11:40] behindeveryline: so there's no point at all to betting $5 with QQ here
[11:40] checkfoldnutz: if he has a flush draw here he's not caling
[11:40] checkfoldnutz: he's shoving
[11:40] checkfoldnutz: calling*
[11:41] behindeveryline: you realize you have a lot behind
[11:41] checkfoldnutz: b/c its basically always gonna be Axh
[11:41] checkfoldnutz: 35$
[11:41] checkfoldnutz: 36*
[11:41] behindeveryline: pretty uncommon for people to shove when they are getting staggering immediate odds
[11:42] checkfoldnutz: so what do u think im representing with the 5$ bet
[11:42] checkfoldnutz: AA ?
[11:42] checkfoldnutz: ultra strong never folding type hands ?
[11:42] behindeveryline: it doesn't matter, you have stated that he's folding pretty much all of his range except obscure KX, 4X, and AXdd
[11:42] behindeveryline: to any size bet
[11:42] behindeveryline: therefore,
[11:42] behindeveryline: what you're repping is irrelevant
[11:42] behindeveryline: because
[11:42] behindeveryline: his play does not depend on what you rep now
[11:43] behindeveryline: he just sees 77
[11:43] behindeveryline: doesn't see a 7 on the flop
[11:43] behindeveryline: and folds
[11:43] behindeveryline: for $5 or $2 or $20
[11:44] behindeveryline: but the bottom line is
[11:44] behindeveryline: you have QQ and
[11:44] behindeveryline: your read of his preflop action
[11:44] behindeveryline: is that he is almost 0% to have you beaten
[11:44] behindeveryline: and, with this flop
[11:44] behindeveryline: still close to 0% to have QQ beaten
[11:44] behindeveryline: if he (basically) NEVER has you beaten but he ALWAYS folds to a bet of any size
[11:44] behindeveryline: then check is by far the best play
[11:44] behindeveryline: he doesn't care to refine his read
[11:44] behindeveryline: he made his mind up preflop
[11:45] checkfoldnutz: what happens if i check and he bets?
[11:45] behindeveryline: you obviously call
[11:45] behindeveryline: unless, for some reason
[11:45] behindeveryline: you think he's 100% guaranteed to check behind without at least a K
[11:45] behindeveryline: which is usually an absurd read
[11:45] checkfoldnutz: ya
[11:45] checkfoldnutz: ic
[11:45] behindeveryline: check/call can look like a number of things
[11:45] behindeveryline: it can look like QQ
[11:45] behindeveryline: FD
[11:45] behindeveryline: maybe KK
[11:46] checkfoldnutz: so u always check/call in this spot?
[11:46] behindeveryline: i awlays check/call if my opponent is almost 100% guaranteed to fold to a bet
[11:46] behindeveryline: but it's really rare for somebody to fold AJ against me on this flop
[11:46] behindeveryline: well, not "really" rare - it's rare for a competent player who makes reasonable adjustments to fold
[11:47] behindeveryline: several nits fold bc they're nits
[11:48] checkfoldnutz: kapol brought up the idea of bluff raising the $5 bet if you're in the other guys spot
[11:48] checkfoldnutz: what u think about that?
[11:48] behindeveryline: depends what i think of the $5 bet
[11:48] behindeveryline: but
[11:48] behindeveryline: you did make it cheap
[11:48] behindeveryline: suppose he raises to $12
[11:48] behindeveryline: risking 12 to win 24 is pretty solid imo
[11:48] checkfoldnutz: lol yeah

I doubt he was contemplating whether to call or not (who does such a strange thing after an open-raise only anyway?). IMO he was just away from keyboard ATM and managed to click "call" in the last second of timebank.

fancy play syndrome imo
but yeah i see why this is isnt great now =[
at least i learned something !
ty all for discussion

Damn, myth is so good that I'm jealous I'm not him T_T. That was a great thing to learn, gonna try it out next session.