Just call the flop raise. You've got top pair bad kicker in a single raised pot 200bb deep.

Yea, u were good here but generally you will not be ahead stacking off here like this

why should he not stack off when this guy has k8o in his range. guy just got max value w his hand exploiting the shit out of this fish and you're telling him its bad lol.

On October 07 2015 09:47 n0rthf4ce wrote: why should he not stack off when this guy has k8o in his range. guy just got max value w his hand exploiting the shit out of this fish and you're telling him its bad lol.

I doubt that he had the information necessary to make that call though, even looking at the other two hands.

On October 07 2015 11:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2015 09:47 n0rthf4ce wrote: why should he not stack off when this guy has k8o in his range. guy just got max value w his hand exploiting the shit out of this fish and you're telling him its bad lol. I doubt that he had the information necessary to make that call though, even looking at the other two hands.

but whales reveal themselves easily

obviously don't do this in general, but I'd bet that hero knew what type of villain he was up against.

How is he supposed to know this guy stacks k8 that is So random lol. Even at this stake i don't think you see shit like this much at all anymore. This is 2004 fish play

If the guy does this with k8 he does it with 10j,10q,10k,10a. So 32 better 10x where we average about 20% eq. We have about the same edge when we get it in vs his eights. So if villain does that with ALL k8 and A8 and nothing else (only considering that part of the range) we would break even (slightly +ev considering what the pot already includes)

Now to include the rest; 7 sets, 6 810 2 pair, 9 58 2 pair (think we can give this fish more than the 2 suited combos apparently), honestly probably have to give a fish like this some overpairs when they take this line. They limp overpairs frequently and even limp/flat AA/KK. Throw in 4 overpair combos just to account for that. So 26 more hands with less than 20%.

His 67 and 79 alone will be 28 combos where he has 25% except the few combodraws in there that do better. 12 more J9 combos where he has 40%. Then every flush draw under the sun which you will be a an equity favorite vs on average.

So against this overall range your play will make money but not a ton and requires many assumptions to be true.

If he slow plays 2p+ your play obviously gets better, but if he flats weaker draws on the flop it gets worse.

Then the biggest factor here is how much 8x he has (because the fact that he can have 8x here at all is the only thing making this play potentially ok) In my example I used 32 combos which is a ton but looking at his play it may be 100 combos if he does this beyond k8/A8 and really does this pretty much as a frequency play with those hands and wasn't just a one time retarded spew he made (which it likely was). No matter how much 8x he truly has in his range here it would be difficult for me to put those hands in when he raises flop and esp when he 4bets. I expect 8x to be flatted by virtually the entire pool on flop

On October 07 2015 17:58 traxamillion wrote: If the guy does this with k8 he does it with 10j,10q,10k,10a. So 32 better 10x where we average about 20% eq. We have about the same edge when we get it in vs his eights. So if villain does that with ALL k8 and A8 and nothing else (only considering that part of the range) we would break even (slightly +ev considering what the pot already includes) Now to include the rest; 7 sets, 6 810 2 pair, 9 58 2 pair (think we can give this fish more than the 2 suited combos apparently), honestly probably have to give a fish like this some overpairs when they take this line. They limp overpairs frequently and even limp/flat AA/KK. Throw in 4 overpair combos just to account for that. So 26 more hands with less than 20%. His 67 and 79 alone will be 28 combos where he has 25% except the few combodraws in there that do better. 12 more J9 combos where he has 40%. Then every flush draw under the sun which you will be a an equity favorite vs on average. So against this overall range your play will make money but not a ton and requires many assumptions to be true. If he slow plays 2p+ your play obviously gets better, but if he flats weaker draws on the flop it gets worse. Then the biggest factor here is how much 8x he has (because the fact that he can have 8x here at all is the only thing making this play potentially ok) In my example I used 32 combos which is a ton but looking at his play it may be 100 combos if he does this beyond k8/A8 and really does this pretty much as a frequency play with those hands and wasn't just a one time retarded spew he made (which it likely was). No matter how much 8x he truly has in his range here it would be difficult for me to put those hands in when he raises flop and esp when he 4bets. I expect 8x to be flatted by virtually the entire pool on flop

what about bottom pair? under pair? no pair? Just two overs?

The real question should be is how much nonsense you need to see from villains like this before it becomes ok to stack off with any mid/top pair+?