I suppose shoving flop makes the most sense here. I've run into the KKxx flush in this spot about 5 times in the last two days. And on none of those occasions are they folding, but I suppose it stands to reason that if they're playing KKxx /w diamonds that hard I should be shoving flop perhaps.

:D POZDRAWIAM BARTOSZA :D

No need to complicate things anyway. Just 4bet PF and shove any flop with these 110bb stacks.

On October 28 2014 18:24 Twisted wrote: No need to complicate things anyway. Just 4bet PF and shove any flop with these 110bb stacks.

I like that and it seems to make sense, obviously it's great when they're rolling with KKxx (but that's a fairly minute part of their range at least for PLO50 players it seems). The difficulty I have with it is as TalentedTom has often opined on here "Why are you complaining about 4-betting weak AAxx type hands and then not winning when you're shoving narrow equity edges on the flop" - it also ignores all the benefits of flatting with AAxx and disguising our hand vs. others who have AAxx themselves (we can bluff them off) and others who will play KKxx or other various hands they turn into bluffs because they feel they are now "repping" AAxx... are there more benefits to that or am I over-thinking it?

I mean to me, it basically paints my hand for villain. They know what I've got, so it comes down to did they flop well enough to jam with us.
SPR tells me that it's 100% correct to play it that way, but math tells me most of the time I'm a 60/40 favourite which given the rake at PLO50 is a pretty slim way to be attempting to make money.
Ideally we get a butt load of flops where they don't catch much and have to fold (yay free money) but it's not been my experience thus far

Also - I finally realized PT4 can actually just export my hands as a group so I don't have to post them in session, I can just export and copy paste all the hands at once .

http://www.liquidpoker.net/hand/hand.php?hand=1044563

Here is the chained hands group for all my 4-bet pots this month totaling 88 pots where I'm the 4-better. I'm down -$202.00 in these spots which seems horrific bad (aka, maybe we should be taking a different more profitable line)? Technically it's +200 EV adjusted, but even so that's not really a lot of profit for what should be our most profitable range of hands. Perhaps that's on me for getting all-in incorrectly though. Plenty to think about there. I suppose it's also possible short-term variance just has me with atrocious flop-luck, but I suppose I need to learn how to use PokerStove to evaluate that so I can settle my thinking back to 4-bet + shove is best line vs. maybe flatting and manipulating with the disguised quality of our hand.